(YB-Meta-Rules) Honor Path progressions and powers
Phoenix8008
First Post
Okay, so immunity is the only thing that always works, but you understand what I mean. With most powers there can be some strategy to them because you can choose when you want to use them. Also, you get to use most of these powers once per fight. With Sig stuff based only on the generator, you have no control and no way to use it more often without adding lots of styles.
Why not something like my previously proposed 'Practice Makes Perfect' power, where once per fight the player can change the Sig Style that they generated into a Sig Style that they know already (if the fighter was a dojo member).
Here is a quote of your response from a YB Rules committee e-mail about this very power.
"The practice makes perfect is alright, but I prefer fist of fury as it
allows the extra flag to be gained against the undead. The energy drain of the undead makes sig styles worthless. Fist of fury compensates better for this weakness better than practice makes perfect."
Since your main objection was concerning how it affected undead which are no longer a factor, what do you think of the power on it's own as a possible solution to the problem?
Why not something like my previously proposed 'Practice Makes Perfect' power, where once per fight the player can change the Sig Style that they generated into a Sig Style that they know already (if the fighter was a dojo member).
Here is a quote of your response from a YB Rules committee e-mail about this very power.
"The practice makes perfect is alright, but I prefer fist of fury as it
allows the extra flag to be gained against the undead. The energy drain of the undead makes sig styles worthless. Fist of fury compensates better for this weakness better than practice makes perfect."
Since your main objection was concerning how it affected undead which are no longer a factor, what do you think of the power on it's own as a possible solution to the problem?
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Wicht
Hero
Well actually your idea was incorporated 
We had (Tsin and me mostly I think) decided to incorporate it into the top tiers, beginning with black belt IIRC.
The reason was that in effect the only difference between your idea and fist of fury was flavor (after the undead were removed). Their effects are virtually identical as is the way in which they are used. Both are used whenever the player thinks they have a good winning move. Both are used at will. I really am not sure what difference you see between the chance of one and the chance of the other.
The thing I ended up liking about having fist of fury AND Practice makes Perfect (renamed Perfect Master) was the possibility of ending up with a potential 6 point move in one round due to the fact that the two powers stack quite nicely.
We had (Tsin and me mostly I think) decided to incorporate it into the top tiers, beginning with black belt IIRC.
The reason was that in effect the only difference between your idea and fist of fury was flavor (after the undead were removed). Their effects are virtually identical as is the way in which they are used. Both are used whenever the player thinks they have a good winning move. Both are used at will. I really am not sure what difference you see between the chance of one and the chance of the other.
The thing I ended up liking about having fist of fury AND Practice makes Perfect (renamed Perfect Master) was the possibility of ending up with a potential 6 point move in one round due to the fact that the two powers stack quite nicely.
Wicht
Hero
I wanted to bump this to see if anyone else had any concepts concerning the Honor path they would like to see incorporated before we lay out actual progression and powers. I spent this afternoon going through the various e-mails from the committee and tomorrow or monday depending on my schedule I will arrange the actual powers for the honor path according to their ranks and open the matter up to debate and discussion.
Phear
First Post
Well I havn't been here very long. So feel free to ignore me completely. But I think the advancement tree that I saw for the Honored warriors of the Path seemed kinda incomplete. If you are planning on making the Standard (or the dojo) tree more elaborate, I think you might also want to make it easier to get into the Path side of the advancement tree. Since the path warriors don't have that many advantages I don't see why someone can't choose to be one earlier on. That would make things alittle different. (not that things arn't great so far that I've seen ).
Right (as everyone knows) now one must up to yellow belt, green then finally red belt. Of course there are always exceptions with the closing of dojos and such, but I don't see the point of limiting the blue and orange belts.
But hey! I have played a total of 2 matchs and havn't really been here enough to see how it all works.
I just thought I would put in my 1 1/2 cents.
). Right (as everyone knows) now one must up to yellow belt, green then finally red belt. Of course there are always exceptions with the closing of dojos and such, but I don't see the point of limiting the blue and orange belts.
But hey! I have played a total of 2 matchs and havn't really been here enough to see how it all works.
I just thought I would put in my 1 1/2 cents.
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Zappo
Explorer
My 2 eurocents
Wicht, when you say "most focused on pure fighting skills", what do you mean, rulewise? They should have more chances to win a fight? I don't think that is correct... all progressions should be about equal in fighting chances.
Maybe you meant that they should be good at fighting and lack in things that work 'outside' combat, like redemption, mercenary tactics, Marked, and others.
I think that the powers working for combat and the powers working outside combat should be kept distinct when talking about balance. That is, make sure that every fighter of any progression but of the same rank has on average the same chances as his opponent at winning the fight.
Wicht, when you say "most focused on pure fighting skills", what do you mean, rulewise? They should have more chances to win a fight? I don't think that is correct... all progressions should be about equal in fighting chances.
Maybe you meant that they should be good at fighting and lack in things that work 'outside' combat, like redemption, mercenary tactics, Marked, and others.
I think that the powers working for combat and the powers working outside combat should be kept distinct when talking about balance. That is, make sure that every fighter of any progression but of the same rank has on average the same chances as his opponent at winning the fight.
Wicht
Hero
Zappo - I mean their skills are more about how hard they can hit, whereas the villains for instance have more sneaky and dirty skills.
I want all the paths to have equal powers (or equal chances in a fight) when we are done, and I realize too that there needs to be a clear distinction between powers that win fights and powers that define a path.
Phear - When we get to the light warriors we can talk about how one gets in and out of the path. For now though, IMO Honor warriors should be able to become honor warriors through either, advancing as a white belt or being redeemed Yakuza.
I want all the paths to have equal powers (or equal chances in a fight) when we are done, and I realize too that there needs to be a clear distinction between powers that win fights and powers that define a path.
Phear - When we get to the light warriors we can talk about how one gets in and out of the path. For now though, IMO Honor warriors should be able to become honor warriors through either, advancing as a white belt or being redeemed Yakuza.
Attachments
Wicht
Hero
Actual Honor Path Progression and Powers
The Honor Path
Concept: The honor path is the path of pure fighters. They hit hard and fast. The warrior on the path of honor cares less about concepts like good and evil and more about concepts like dignity, honor, and self-worth. Honor warriors are better when they are part of a structured dojo.
Ranks and Progression:
White Belt: No ranks
Yellow Belt: 0-2
Green Belt: 0-4
Brown Belt: 0-6
Black Belt: 0-8
Grand Master: 0-10
Perfect Master: no ranks
Special Rules: Warriors on the Path of Honor do not lose belt rank as easily as some other fighters. Before falling from one belt to the lower belt because of a defeat, Honor fighters have three ranks of disgrace. Thus a Yellow Belt 0 that loses a fight becomes a Yellow Belt Disgraced 1 and losing another fight would make them Yellow Belt Disgraced 2. A single victory however will erase all disgrace, bringing them back to Belt 0.
Perfect Masters have no rank and a single loss will drop them down to GrandMaster 10.
Special Powers and Abilities
Yellow Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Fist of Fury,
Green Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Chi Strike, Master of Emotions
Brown Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Fist of Fury, master of Movement
Black Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Mastery, Master of Shadows
Grand Master: Signature Style, Dojo Master, Mastery, Master of Wealth
Perfect Master: Signature Style, Perfect Attack, Mastery, Supreme Master
Explanation of Powers
Signature Style: If a fighter uses a move with a signature style he knows and wins the round, he wins an extra point. Fighters are immune to moves generated containing a signature style they know. Signature styles are normally chosen from the style used in the last round the flags started at neutral. If this style is already known, the next winning move is used and so on.
Dojo Style: When a fighter obtains the ability to have a new dojo style they must join a dojo, or be in a dojo structure already, to actually gain it (Except when there are no fighters of higher rank - in such a case a fighter may pick their own dojo style). Dojo styles are learned from a teacher (an honor fighter of higher rank) and must be known by the teacher as a signature style (not as a dojo style). As long as the teacher's dojo structure has an honorable record (at least as many wins as losses) then the student may benefit from the dojo style as if it were a signature style. If the teachers dojo structure (meaning the teacher and all under her or under her students) gains a dishonorable record no benefit at all is gained from the dojo style. When a fighter gains new belt rank, a known dojo style automatically becomes a signature style.
Fist of Fury A fighter with fist of fury may once per fight per fist of fury known, post a second generated move. This second move is not compared to the opponents move. If the first generated move scores points then the second generated move scores points as well and the points from both moves are added together. Fist of Fury may not be used in connection with chi strike!
Chi Strike A fighter with chi strike can hit so hard the opponent has no choice but to react. Once per match a fighter with the power can declare any generated move to be a chi strike. The fighter however must post first in the round in order to do so. The effect of the chi strike is such that the opponent can use no power other than that which results from the random generator (i.e Sig style/location/modifier). Powers that may not be used include Holy Day, Dirty Trick and Sneaky Trick. Chi strike may not be used in connection with Fist of Fury but may be used with Perfect Master.
Mastery: The fighter may upon obtaining this power designate one signature style of his as being perfectly mastered. Thereafter, once per fight per style so mastered, the fighter can switch the generated style in a move with the style he has mastered.
Dojo Master: The Dojo Master oversees a number of different dojos and teachers. He may, at the beginning of any of his fights, designate a style known by anyone in his dojo structure as a signature style for that fight.
Perfect Attack: All attacks made by the Perfect Master score an extra point if successful.
Modifier Powers: master of emotions/movement/shadows/wealth/Supreme Master
The 50 modifiers in the generator will be broken into 5 lists (modifiers will have to be altered for this). A fighter who has for example gains the Master of Emotions will know the modifiers: avenging, ferocious, cautious, relentless, calm, confidant, joyful, courageous, wrathful, sad. Successfully using a move containing a modifier will garner an extra point for the round.
The other four modifier lists are as follows:
Moving: crouching, falling, flying, falling, rolling, running, tumbling, leaping, twisting, balancing, speeding
Shadowy: Tricky, invisible, stealthy, sneaky, sly, evasive, secret, unseen, hidden, shadowy
Wealth: diamond, jade, onyx, pearl, opal, gold, silver, topaz, emerald, ruby
Supreme: irresistible, invincible, mighty, perfect, faultless, flawless, pure, superior, transcendent, supreme
The Honor Path
Concept: The honor path is the path of pure fighters. They hit hard and fast. The warrior on the path of honor cares less about concepts like good and evil and more about concepts like dignity, honor, and self-worth. Honor warriors are better when they are part of a structured dojo.
Ranks and Progression:
White Belt: No ranks
Yellow Belt: 0-2
Green Belt: 0-4
Brown Belt: 0-6
Black Belt: 0-8
Grand Master: 0-10
Perfect Master: no ranks
Special Rules: Warriors on the Path of Honor do not lose belt rank as easily as some other fighters. Before falling from one belt to the lower belt because of a defeat, Honor fighters have three ranks of disgrace. Thus a Yellow Belt 0 that loses a fight becomes a Yellow Belt Disgraced 1 and losing another fight would make them Yellow Belt Disgraced 2. A single victory however will erase all disgrace, bringing them back to Belt 0.
Perfect Masters have no rank and a single loss will drop them down to GrandMaster 10.
Special Powers and Abilities
Yellow Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Fist of Fury,
Green Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Chi Strike, Master of Emotions
Brown Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Fist of Fury, master of Movement
Black Belt: Signature Style, Dojo Style, Mastery, Master of Shadows
Grand Master: Signature Style, Dojo Master, Mastery, Master of Wealth
Perfect Master: Signature Style, Perfect Attack, Mastery, Supreme Master
Explanation of Powers
Signature Style: If a fighter uses a move with a signature style he knows and wins the round, he wins an extra point. Fighters are immune to moves generated containing a signature style they know. Signature styles are normally chosen from the style used in the last round the flags started at neutral. If this style is already known, the next winning move is used and so on.
Dojo Style: When a fighter obtains the ability to have a new dojo style they must join a dojo, or be in a dojo structure already, to actually gain it (Except when there are no fighters of higher rank - in such a case a fighter may pick their own dojo style). Dojo styles are learned from a teacher (an honor fighter of higher rank) and must be known by the teacher as a signature style (not as a dojo style). As long as the teacher's dojo structure has an honorable record (at least as many wins as losses) then the student may benefit from the dojo style as if it were a signature style. If the teachers dojo structure (meaning the teacher and all under her or under her students) gains a dishonorable record no benefit at all is gained from the dojo style. When a fighter gains new belt rank, a known dojo style automatically becomes a signature style.
Fist of Fury A fighter with fist of fury may once per fight per fist of fury known, post a second generated move. This second move is not compared to the opponents move. If the first generated move scores points then the second generated move scores points as well and the points from both moves are added together. Fist of Fury may not be used in connection with chi strike!
Chi Strike A fighter with chi strike can hit so hard the opponent has no choice but to react. Once per match a fighter with the power can declare any generated move to be a chi strike. The fighter however must post first in the round in order to do so. The effect of the chi strike is such that the opponent can use no power other than that which results from the random generator (i.e Sig style/location/modifier). Powers that may not be used include Holy Day, Dirty Trick and Sneaky Trick. Chi strike may not be used in connection with Fist of Fury but may be used with Perfect Master.
Mastery: The fighter may upon obtaining this power designate one signature style of his as being perfectly mastered. Thereafter, once per fight per style so mastered, the fighter can switch the generated style in a move with the style he has mastered.
Dojo Master: The Dojo Master oversees a number of different dojos and teachers. He may, at the beginning of any of his fights, designate a style known by anyone in his dojo structure as a signature style for that fight.
Perfect Attack: All attacks made by the Perfect Master score an extra point if successful.
Modifier Powers: master of emotions/movement/shadows/wealth/Supreme Master
The 50 modifiers in the generator will be broken into 5 lists (modifiers will have to be altered for this). A fighter who has for example gains the Master of Emotions will know the modifiers: avenging, ferocious, cautious, relentless, calm, confidant, joyful, courageous, wrathful, sad. Successfully using a move containing a modifier will garner an extra point for the round.
The other four modifier lists are as follows:
Moving: crouching, falling, flying, falling, rolling, running, tumbling, leaping, twisting, balancing, speeding
Shadowy: Tricky, invisible, stealthy, sneaky, sly, evasive, secret, unseen, hidden, shadowy
Wealth: diamond, jade, onyx, pearl, opal, gold, silver, topaz, emerald, ruby
Supreme: irresistible, invincible, mighty, perfect, faultless, flawless, pure, superior, transcendent, supreme
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