YBA Revision Planning

[Wicht]

I have put it off as long as I could
but it does really look like the time is swift approaching when the YBA rules should get a bit of a face-lift and a rewrite. Overall I think the basic game structure works as is. But some fine tuning would not hurt.

Off the top of my head some needed fixes include the following:

It seems like the experience system should be switched over from the 5 experience point system to the hits defeated system. This will make it slightly more complex but really not a whole lot more than it already is.

The CR system for the monsters works, but it makes the game slightly too easy after a player hits about 10 hits. You either have to throw way powerful monsters at them or they advance too easy.

Some of the rules need further clarified: For example - the rule concerning initiative needs to be rewritten to take into account natural powers and battery operated powers.

The Holy Warrior chain needs to be strengthened. The Undead powers need some adjusting. Some power costs need adjusting.

Some things I do not want to change include:
The classless system. Some power chains are good, but I do not want a "Paladin" chain nor a "Wizard" chain. These classes need to be defined by the player, not by the powers. Cait Sith (my character) as a wizard works fine as is, using only the available powers. The semi-exception to this is of course the Holy/Unholy Warrior chains and the Undead chain. But even these aren't classes, they are simply a more defined progression of powers. Two battery systems seems to work find IMO.

The ability to move a character from one judges thread to another. Progression by all players should be fairly equal in terms of power. One 10 hit character should not be twice as good as another 10 hit character.

So what are your thoughts
The purpose of this thread is to allow current YBA players to chime in at a single place concerning things they want fixed, adjusted, discussed or even things they like as is. Some discussion is fine, but please remember that this is a thread for ideas not arguements.

Actual rewriting of the rules will not commence immediatelly so don't feel rushed or pressured. Give it some thought and we will keep this thread bumped if necessary for a few weeks.

 

[Creamsteak]

After some brief playing, I'd like to see the abilities turned into "chains." I've got ideas on how exactly to do this if you don't mind a nice long post on the subject, but I definitely think that there should be organization. I don't believe that that organization should be turned into a "class list" as that would destroy the "free-form" part of YB and YBA, but I do believe that it would help people visualize pre-requisites.

Just a minor thing: I'd like to see something done to make fights 1 step more complicated. During a fight, I often found that my encounters were incredibly short, and although my character was at risk, I felt like there was nothing I could do about it. I think that a "style" type variant could be added to YBA, as an option.

 

[Ciaran]

Let me start by saying that I love YBA and have been having lots of fun with it. That said, there are some definite problems with the cost/effectiveness ratios of many of the powers. I haven't sat down and done a thorough analysis, but here's a few issues off the top of my head:

Armor is waaaaay more cost-effective than weaponry; armor is always handy, while a weapon is only useful 2% of the time. Yes, it's more complicated than that, but I can't imagine buying a weapon unless I'd maxed out my armor (or I had Perfect Mastery; more on that later.) Likewise, signature styles are only really worth buying as prerequisites for other powers or for Perfect Mastery.

Batteries look to be too cost-effective in the long run. After the initial 4xp investment, you gain access to a flexible power pool with absolutely no downside when compared to the powers it emulates. Why spend 5xp for Fists of Fury when you can sink 5xp into the Battery, which you can then use on Fists of Fury or Shove or etc etc etc... The chi/ki costs for battery powers should be a tiny bit more than the xp costs for buying the powers outright. Unfortunately, with the current power cost granularity, it may not be possible to do this without overbalancing in the other direction.

Purity of Focus is never worth buying under the current rulings. I've expounded on this elsewhere.

I'm not sure what to think about Fists of Fury; it starts out weak, but steadily increases in value as the fighter accumulates styles and weapons. Maybe it's balanced at the higher levels; I don't know. I'm not sure it can be balanced in such a way as to be worth purchasing at low levels without being overpowered for its cost at high levels.

Shove strikes me as being at least as powerful as Dirty Trick, and shouldn't be cheaper. While it can't stop a whole slew of strong attacks at once like Dirty Trick can, it can be used to suppress one strong attack while still allowing the fighter to whomp on a second opponent with a weak attack. Any power that's useful both on attack and on defense strikes me as a good power indeed.

Does anyone actually use Bribe Judges?

Master of Perfect Movement looks cool on the surface, but I think that it actually comes in handy in a vanishingly tiny percentage of all strikes. Only, what, 5-10% of all strikes use a modifier, right? And there are 50 modifiers, of which even a very powerful character won't have more than 4 or 5. You do the math. It's certainly way overpriced at 7xp. Either lower it to, oh, 1xp, or add some other benefit (like, an attack using a signature modifier you know deals 2 extra damage rather than the usual 1).

Teachers should have an Epic Power to match Strategic Planner.

Perfect Mastery breaks the otherwise underpowered signature style power chain, due to its synergy with weapons. Monderefal is the chief example of this; yes, it's hard to get the hideous amount of yen he needed for his +5 Phoenix, +5 Avenging weapon, but with Perfect Mastery of the Avenging Phoenix, he can dish out, what, 14 damage in one blow? Yes, that can be stopped with Dirty Trick and Shove, but they are themselves overpowered...

Life Drain is ridiculously overpowered by comparison to weapons and styles. To get the same effect as Life Drain otherwise, you'd need to be Student of 50 styles, for 100xp... definitely not balanced. Poison Blade costs 3xp for just one attack. And then there's Energy Drain... but you already mentioned that you're working on the Undead powers, so I'll shut up now.

- Eric

 

[Jeph]

The Run Away rule should be included in the revised edition. Come to think of it, an entire section on using the generator for noncombat situations or varient uses might be nice.

I definitely agree that armor is much more cost effective than weapons. One way to change this would be to make an armor work just like a weapon: when your opponent gens a move, and you have an armor matching that move, they deal less damage. (Example: Armor of the Flaming Phenix might provide protection 3 against Hells and Phenix moves. Trifield Energy Shielding might provide protection 2 against Trident moves.) The problem is, this would make 1 Nat Hit characters more vulnerable, and probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world.

JMHO,
-Jeph

 

[Kalanyr]

The system of exclusive powers needs to be set for all powers, the idea you can't become an Assassin and then a Holy Warrior, but you can't be a Holy Warrior and then buy DT, while the reverse isn't true is silly.

Edit- Also the DT initiative is a HUGE advantage worth at least 3 XP in and of itself. Monderefal's perfect mastery may be powerful but if he's not going last I can't be sure when to use it.

 

[Wicht]

Good comments so far guys, this is exactly the stuff I need to hear.

It is going to be hard to perfectly fix some of the cost ratios of the powers, especially if we try to keep 5 as the maximum cost for the 'normal' powers. But suggestions for actual costs are appreciated.

I am not sure the weapons are that off however. 2 yen for a +1 2% of the time seems steep until you start getting an arsenal and a guy with an arsenal will beat a guy with superior armor every time in this game IMO. One must take into account that the +1 damage helps win victory whereas the +1 armor only prolongs defeat.

Is the Dirty Trick Initiative thing actually broken or just extremely useful. Should Dirty Trick cost more than 3? What should be the cost?

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

I think Dirty Trick is extremely useful but not broken, especially if we account for other powers that may make you delay as well (one of Kalanyr's suggestions)

For Ki Battery though, all non-exclusive powers to the battery should have their costs up by 1 point so a (pre-changed) shove would cost 3 ki instead of 2.

Shove does seem overpowered when combined with Dirty Trick though, it can negate so many things for only 2 exp, maybe up the cost to 3 exp and up Dirty Trick's cost to 4 or 5 exp.

Also, the goal of gaining masteries in styles and locations seems flawed compared to other paths of powers, as I believe it was Skarnkai's char which showed that, perhaps a power or two with more prerequisites similar to Teacher/Gang Lord (3 or more locations or styles mastered) to help make it a worthwhile path to follow.

 

[Rathan]

I'd like to throw my two cents in if ya'll don't mind....

First... I don't know what to think of shove in the (un)holy batteries..... I mean... I think they need to be removed of the cost upped for it in the batteries.... I mean... it's really easy to throw that at an opponent... especially when you have like twentysomething chi/ki waether your a PC or NPC.....

whomever said it was correct in saying the Holy Warrior path needs to be strenthened..... going about this is another story....I think we need to have a settime fora chat sit-in or a thread to discuss some changes..... although it didn't work out too well for the "Rules Commity" IMO.....

I feel the undead path is too strong..... I feel if an undead has both enegry drain and life drain there are too powerfull for most to take.... beacause they usually have more powers than just that to go along with them...... I think an undead should be limited to one or the other... just like in YB you can't have perfect defence and perfect attack at the same time... otherwise someone power would be insane......

I would like to have a sit-in with PC and DM alike and have a good heated discussion on the rules as they stand and an outline of things to come..... if anyone is with me on this..let me know..I'll be glad to have a discussion......

 

[Wicht]

Also, the goal of gaining masteries in styles and locations seems flawed compared to other paths of powers, as I believe it was Skarnkai's char which showed that, perhaps a power or two with more prerequisites similar to Teacher/Gang Lord (3 or more locations or styles mastered) to help make it a worthwhile path to follow.

The mastery of styles and locations however has one huge benifit. Mastery of a Style provides immunity to that style. Over the long stretch this is the absolute best path to follow.

 

[Creamsteak]

Wicht, what decisions have you definitely chosen to make?