Yeah that's right, I killed a DRAGON single handed
- Thread starter redwing
- Start date
ThirdWizard
First Post
I do think dragon battles should be difficult but epicness isn't all that important.
At 6th level now, my current players have fought 2 dragons. One was a Chaos Dragon (they still have no idea what kind it was) that they fought around level 3, the other was a White dragon that they fought around level 5. Both these dragons were inexperienced and didn't fight as intelligently as a full grown dragon would. Heh, in both cases, they stumbled upon the dragons without hearing about them prior to the encounter, which meant no protections up. They're now sporting nice shiney dragon-hide clothing (that'll come back to bite 'em).
Low level dragon encounters can be fun. They shouldn't be a cakewalk, but waiting until dragons are capable of terrorizing kingdoms before the PCs fight them is shortchanging them a good bit of fun, I think.
At 6th level now, my current players have fought 2 dragons. One was a Chaos Dragon (they still have no idea what kind it was) that they fought around level 3, the other was a White dragon that they fought around level 5. Both these dragons were inexperienced and didn't fight as intelligently as a full grown dragon would. Heh, in both cases, they stumbled upon the dragons without hearing about them prior to the encounter, which meant no protections up. They're now sporting nice shiney dragon-hide clothing (that'll come back to bite 'em).
Low level dragon encounters can be fun. They shouldn't be a cakewalk, but waiting until dragons are capable of terrorizing kingdoms before the PCs fight them is shortchanging them a good bit of fun, I think.
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
You think thats bad I actually paid for the DVD, without getting a chance to see it sooner.S'mon said:I voluntarily saw Reign of Fire because the posters in the London Underground with dragons fighting Apache helicopters over Westminster Palace looked really cool.
What a waste of $$!
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
DaveMage said:
I agree with DaveMage here - I LIKE the fact that 3e makes it possible and practical for PCs to be fighting dragons for their entire career, the fact that there are dragons available for pretty much every challenge rating imaginable.
I also don't mind the fact that WotC fudged the dragon CRs a little to make them always seem 'tough' fights. So far in my campaign the party have fought
White dragon wyrmling
a pair of black dragon wyrmlings
White dragon juvenile
Blue dragon juvenile
Green dragon young adult
Red dragon young adult
I can understand why someone might like to only have big epic dragons, but I like them as foes that can be fought throughout a campaign, rather than just at the end of it.
Thinking of other great dragon battles, I really like the one in the film Dragonslayer (which is on TV in the UK tomorrow - huzzah!) It isn't just one battle, there are a whole series of battles in attempting to off the dragon, and the end is full of explosive action.
Cheers
jasper
Rotten DM
one of players Bard has a saying "i killed a dragon by myself. And the party helped!"
This was due the option 3 crits and dead rule. However a few minutes after the player killed the dragon a thought when thru all their heads. If the bard can kill the dragon in 3 die rolls so can we. So the optional rule was quickly voted out.
Dragons should run the whole range. From wimps to run away, leave the kingdom, and change our names.
This was due the option 3 crits and dead rule. However a few minutes after the player killed the dragon a thought when thru all their heads. If the bard can kill the dragon in 3 die rolls so can we. So the optional rule was quickly voted out.
Dragons should run the whole range. From wimps to run away, leave the kingdom, and change our names.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
DaveMage said:
Bingo.
Now if your campaign setting calls for all dragons to be ancient wyrms or whatever, all well and good, but the core rules have dragons as opponents for characters of almost all levels and the Dragonomicon makes sure that players of various power levels can engage them and their minions.
Bloodstone Press
Explorer
I've seen several groups do that. I blame it on meta-game thinking. The players think that the DM won't put anything in the game that they can't beat. Several groups have had to learn (and re-learn) that that's not the way I run games. I like games where low level characters and high CR monster cross paths.
As for fighting a dragon, the old rule about catching them in their lairs is still the best rule. In fact, I can remember about 8 or 10 different battles with dragons over the past 20 years of gaming. Of those, I can only think of one dragon being killed when the battle took place outside. Any other battle with a dragon outside ended with the dragon surviving. The majority of dragons I've killed as a player and all of the dragons killed when I DMed were cornered in their lairs or other confined space.
I've had one character, a paladin, who attempted to stand up to a dragon single-handedly(outside, BTW). I had a huge magical sword/lance thing but even that didn't help.
I've also had a drow archer who almost killed a dragon single-handedly (with some help from the other party members). Back in the days of 2e, he made 2 called shots to the dragon's eyes with his bow, blinding it and inflicting tremendous damage.
Bloodstone Press
Explorer
Just remembered another battle with dragons which took place out side and resulted in dead dragons. The battle also fits the sort of thing you're looking for, so I'll sum up the story.
We were playing 2e, epic levels on the planes. We all had artifacts. One character was a special Dragon Slayer, with a sword of dragon slaying.
The battle took place with him standing atop a tall narrow pillar with a couple of red dragons flying around him. He hewed about himself with murderous impunity, lopping off both dragon's heads with terrific attack and damage rolls. The rest of us watched in awe.
The dragon slayer class was similar to the paladin, but the holy avenger was replaced with a dragon slayer sword. He was immune to dragon breath (one or more types depending on level), he could smite dragons and was immune to dragon fear, etc.
We were playing 2e, epic levels on the planes. We all had artifacts. One character was a special Dragon Slayer, with a sword of dragon slaying.
The battle took place with him standing atop a tall narrow pillar with a couple of red dragons flying around him. He hewed about himself with murderous impunity, lopping off both dragon's heads with terrific attack and damage rolls. The rest of us watched in awe.
The dragon slayer class was similar to the paladin, but the holy avenger was replaced with a dragon slayer sword. He was immune to dragon breath (one or more types depending on level), he could smite dragons and was immune to dragon fear, etc.
Every game I've ever played in, and every game I've ever run, has had dragons as epic forces of Good/Evil, that dwarfed the power of mere mortals. Up until about 15th level or so, an encounter with a dragon was one where you considered yourself lucky to escape alive, never mind defeating it single-handedly.
What would a campaign be like where the main enemy was dragons? Since dragons scale through jsut about all experience levels, PCs could be fighting them almost exlusively from the beginning, instead of, say, goblins. Assume that Dragons are prolific enough that wyrmlings are a dime a dozen, even if they get progressively rarer as they go up in age category. Could you build a game around that? It completely destroys the image of dragons being epic adversaries, for one thing.
Or does it? If you spend your entire adventuring career fighting a particular Great Wyrm's hellish spawn, couldn't an encounter with the Mother herself be pretty Epic? What do you all think?
If this is too much of a thread-hijack, I'll start up a new one.
What would a campaign be like where the main enemy was dragons? Since dragons scale through jsut about all experience levels, PCs could be fighting them almost exlusively from the beginning, instead of, say, goblins. Assume that Dragons are prolific enough that wyrmlings are a dime a dozen, even if they get progressively rarer as they go up in age category. Could you build a game around that? It completely destroys the image of dragons being epic adversaries, for one thing.
Or does it? If you spend your entire adventuring career fighting a particular Great Wyrm's hellish spawn, couldn't an encounter with the Mother herself be pretty Epic? What do you all think?
If this is too much of a thread-hijack, I'll start up a new one.
ThirdWizard
First Post
F5 said:
I've been doing just that, actually, though the PCs themselves havn't faced the particular dragons just yet. They know people who have, though. The area of the west is ruled by the Dynasty of Black Dragons. They're all different ages, have in fighting among themselves, and rule over varous territory. They're all related, but that doesn't mean they all get along, being black dragons. The PCs have already stopped a young black dragon's expansion of the territory to the south by killing his lizard-folk minions (without having to confront the dragon himself). As the campaign progresses, they'll fight more dragons, make enemies within their ranks, and I think it will prove itself to be quite the epic strugged, especially considering how many dragons are involved here (a couple dozen).
