Yet another DM problem (*sigh*)

[JacktheRabbit]

Talk to the other players and see what they say. My first suggestion would be as a group talk to him so he doesnt think it is individual whining.

You know your friend though and who knows if he can handle the mass of critics.

If you know he cannot and dont want to lose him as a friend then just decide to be "busy" on game nights from now and find yourself a new group.

 

[ForceUser]

Among my friends, three of us DM regularly. The other two guys have all kinds of fun playing their bad guys. They cheer when they crit on a player, they laugh when the bad guys get a good shot in, or execute a manuever that we weren't prepared for, etc. Nobody cares; it's all in good fun. We know they aren't really against us. They're just having a ball being the DM. Me, on the other hand, I tend to be more subdued about these things because for some reason when I did them, the players just got mad at me. I dunno why, really, because to me it seems like what I did wasn't any different from what they did. But I'm an expressive person and tend to overdramatize things, so perhaps they took my cheering as actual gloating or something. My players all said that in my last campaign they felt like it was me verses them. This sort of floored me, because I NEVER saw it that way. But whatever, I don't do that stuff anymore. I roll the dice, I be descriptive, and I stay in character when I say evil stuff. You know, so people don't get confused.

I'm not bitter.

Anyway, just talk to your friend about it. Try not to be confrontational, no matter how annoyed you may be.

 

[TiQuinn]

Is there anybody else in your group willing to take on the role of DM? I would suggest asking to switch places if somebody is up to be the DM. Aside from that, I think you need to call him on this stuff. As a group, tell him that his "realistic" version of the game isn't working out and you are all getting rather fed up with it. Otherwise, I think your going to find people getting tired of the game and just skipping out of games entirely. And that'll be the end of your campaign. So, definitely...talk to this guy and set him straight.

 

[BlackMoria]

Talk with him. Don't hold back but be tactful. If he is any sort of friend like you say, he will understand. If not, then how much of a friend was he really?

Explain that while everyone enjoys the campaign, the adversarial attitude is killing everyone's fun. In a compromising spirit, hash out some ground rules for Rule 0 reality stuff. Put it to a vote.

If all else fails, let him know that you and the others (and there must be the others backing you on this) will vote with your feet and he will be a DM without players. Then someone else takes up the mantle of DMing. If no one wants to DM, then you are going to have to either 'Put Up or Shut Up' with the existing status quo.

At any rate, Good Luck with it.

 

[Maraxle]

He acts like he is one side, the players are the other, and there has to be a "winner". He's downright nasty at times about it. He grins like a maniac when we fail to detect a trap, shouts "yes!" when a monster critical hits a player, etc.

This one bothers me the most. 90% of the time, I am the DM in our group. If anything, I am guilty of the opposite. I WANT the players to "win". I cheer when they make a critical hit, and do my best to give them a fulfilling (and ego-stroking) description of the situation. It makes them happy.

Of course, if they make a critical miss, I make sure that something interesting (interestingly bad) happens as well. They really seem to like this. The entire group goes silent, waiting to hear what awful thing is going to happen to their comrade. This silence is generally followed by a cheer and/or some laughter, depending on the situation. What a bunch of sickos...

Anyway, back on topic. I know it's tough to sit a friend down and say, "I don't like the way you play." It's stressful on your relationship, and a lot of people don't take criticism well, even if it is given with the best of intentions. If I were in your shoes, I'd try to lead by example. Offer to run a game. Tell him that you know DMing is a lot of work, and that you'd like to give him a break. Then run the game the way you'd like him to run the games. He might pick up some pointers. Or, if you're so inclined, you might have just found a new DM without excluding your friend from the game.

 

[Tsyr]

To sort of respond to some of the suggestions I've been getting, I'll explain a little about the makeup of this group.

There are four of us total, three players and the DM. Of the players, me and one other are both DMs in our own groups. The other player is a fairly new gamer (I'll get to that in a second). It's not a matter of no gaming for us if we up and leave... we both play in each others groups, despite their being no other people in common... It's more that, the DM in question really wants to DM, and we are his friends, and have been for some time... If we just stop comming, he will get mad, if we talk to him, he will probably be offended... We just don't know how to deal with the situation. And what makes this so galling is that, as I've stated before, he used to be a VERY good DM. Fair, fun, etc.

Now to respond to a few specific points...

This isn't adding "realism." This is just being a jerk. Does he do the same to his NPCs?

Not that I can tell. I mean, he rolls dice, but I can't recall them ever botching it. I guess it's that Mensa IQ thing.

I regularly do worse to my PCs in this area. See my response to 1, above.

Yes, me too. But not after I've dramaticly reduced the effectiveness of certain staple abilities and tactics.

I see nothing wrong with this one; I do something similar, although in my games, detecting evil is a subconscious thing, even for players. It's not like, "I detect evil. He's evil? I slay!" Instead, it's like "there's something...wrong...about that guy over there."

Sure, but said paladin then treats a guy who saved her from being sacrificed to a dark god like a foul-mothed lepper with a time-bomb strapped to his chest, just because he's not an upstanding citizen? I guess I'm not seeing the "good" in that portrayal of "lawful good".

And as for the "why" respond from Shadeus... I think you might be on to something. He's at Eastern Mich... studing to be a director, of all things (as in the movie type)... and he does tend to have an ego about that.

As for that thing I mentioned earlier in this post about the new player...

8) The DM has a rule that what you say, you do, unless you put your hand on your head first (Not sure where he got that from...). Unfortunatly, with a new player, this just DOES NOT WORK. IE, she forgets about AoO, or mis-remembers the radius on a fireball or something... but it's too late to do anything about it.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

IS putting your hand on your head something they do in acting when signifying what you are saying vs when you are saying what you are doing?

I think the school thing is the big hint here. He is not DMing your group, he is directing them.

Quick question that will answer this right off.

Think about his campaign and tell me. What is more important his story or your characters actions?

$20 says he is a plot nazi and all this crap you have mentioned is his various ways to control what the party does so that they do not ruin his story.

 

[Rune]

Sure, but said paladin then treats a guy who saved her from being sacrificed to a dark god like a foul-mothed lepper with a time-bomb strapped to his chest, just because he's not an upstanding citizen? I guess I'm not seeing the "good" in that portrayal of "lawful good".

I agree that that leans more toward law than good and if I were in charge of running the character or game, that would be grounds for an audit by the god of the paladin (although, maybe not by the church). Still, nothing too bad with that one, by itself. In combination with the others, though, this guy is just a jerk.

And as for the "why" respond from Shadeus... I think you might be on to something. He's at Eastern Mich... studing to be a director, of all things (as in the movie type)... and he does tend to have an ego about that.

Ah, a wannabe director! That explains everything! Hope we don't have another Soloman on our hands in a few years!

As for that thing I mentioned earlier in this post about the new player...

8) The DM has a rule that what you say, you do, unless you put your hand on your head first (Not sure where he got that from...). Unfortunatly, with a new player, this just DOES NOT WORK. IE, she forgets about AoO, or mis-remembers the radius on a fireball or something... but it's too late to do anything about it.

At this point, friendship or no, it's time to confront him. It's one thing to make the game miserable for people who are experienced enough to deal with it, but to bully a newbie around is not excusable.

For the sake of the new player, end it.

 

[reapersaurus]

oh, God, you're pushing my buttons in this thread.

You have my utter sympathies, and I unfortunately don't have any ideas how to help UNLESS you can somehow penetrate this guys Armor of Bad-DM'ing and get thru how he's screwing up.

Good Luck.

Very well-written post, BTW.

My only question I don't get is: WHY are you playing Lawful Evil?

 

[Shadeus]

8) The DM has a rule that what you say, you do, unless you put your hand on your head first (Not sure where he got that from...). Unfortunatly, with a new player, this just DOES NOT WORK. IE, she forgets about AoO, or mis-remembers the radius on a fireball or something... but it's too late to do anything about it.

If my DM did that, I would change the rule to "You give the DM the finger any..." It's much more entertaining and easier to remember.

I've played with the same people for 12 years, and we've been playing 3E since it came out (about once a month) and they screw up AoOs every single time or forget when they get multiple attacks. I even started writing out notecards that read, "Did you move more than 5'?"

D&D is too complicated to do with all the additional "drinking game" rules too (sloppy dice, drink twice!)