Blackeagle
First Post
Endroren, have you read the skill challenges excerpt? Particularly the negotiation with the Duke that's given as an example. From your perspective, what exactly is wrong with it?
Endroren said:Huzzah! What he said!Celebrim said:The mythic '15 minute workday' is not a product of rules. It's a product of some players approach to the game, coupled with what appears to be conscious DM reinforcement of that approach.
Endroren said:Look, MAYBE the real 4E books will be different but even just using the standard HERO rules , even the Sidekick, as a guide, there is a distinct difference in the focus of the rules. 4E, in this introductory module which may or may not have been a good example of play (despite the fact that it is supposed to be) gives little more than lip service to social skills. Pair this with what the WotC designers have said and I think I have a valid concern here.
And as I mentioned, I HOPE I'm wrong, but honestly, I'm pretty concerned that I've hit this on the head.
Vendark said:Meh. I'm not worried. IMO, the biggest obstacle to roleplaying in KotS is not the rules, nor the scenario as presented, but rather the fact that it uses pregens. Instead of coming up with a character concept and then using the rules to realize it in play, players have to pick a set of statistics and then try to come up with a character for it. That lack of ownership of and investment in the character is sure to have a depressing effect on the immersion of many players.
Endroren said:Have you read the skill descriptions in HERO? Or better yet, have you read Ultimate Skill? These are well designed, robust, story driven rules. And it isn't just two rules.
Endroren said:Let me preface by saying I'm not trying to be a jerk when I ask is...I'm trying to understand the differing opinions.
What IS a roleplaying game to you?
In other words, what does a game system have to include to be able to honestly include the words "Roleplaying Game" somewhere on the cover? Some manner of definition must be possible, otherwise one could call anything an RPG.
Well, the problem with that is no one wants to play the "novice" version. People want the real thing. This is the "basic set" for all intents and purposes, and it mostly works in that regard. The lack of basic equipment information is one glaring omission - you can buy stuff in town but you can't because you don't have the PHB yet... or you find magic armor that gives an extra +1 to AC, but you don't know what AC bonus the armor itself gives...JeffB said:I'll preface by saying I like KOTS so far (and I was all set up NOT to). However I think it's been marketed very poorly.
Its a horrible introduction to the game of D&D
Its a good introduction to the 4E rule-set for players familiar with the game previously
I think Wizards should have gone the 3E route: i.e. 3 core books, an introductory adventure (that requires the 3 books) and a "basic set" with streamlined rules and adventure material for the Novice.