D&D 5E Yet Another Multiclassing Variant (Looking for Feedback)

[dmhelp]

After feedback from this thread I updated my house rules. Thanks!

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think you have added a lot of complexity to the multiclassing rules to create multiclasses that are more powerful than that available under the current rules.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Way too complex IMO. I would like to suggest an idea I've used in the past with a lot of success:

Second class as Subclass (or SCAS )
So, here is how it works:

When you gain your subclass, you gain the first level in a second class instead (just things listed on the class features table).
When you gain later subclass features, you gain two levels in your second class.
When you gain your next subclass feature, you gain two more levels in your second class.
When you gain your fourth subclass feature (or reach level 20), you gain the two final levels in your second class.
Note: Fighters don't gain their 5th subclass feature when multiclassing.

Example: Fighter multiclassing to Rogue.
Fighter at level 3 gains Rogue 1 features (again, everything on the class table, but no HP, no skills, etc.); Expertise, Sneak Attack (1d6), Thieves' Cant.
Fighter at level 7 gains Rogue 2 and 3 features; Cunning Action (no Roguish Archetype, of course), Sneak Attack (3d6).
Fighter at level 10 gains Rogue 4 and 5 features; ASI, Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack (5d6).
Fighter at level 15 gains Rogue 6 and 7 features; Expertise, Evasion, Sneak Attack (7d6).
Fighter gains nothing at level 18 if they multiclass (as noted above).

Anyway, I don't know if it will help with the issues you seem to be having or not, just throwing it out there for you to think on.

 

[Horwath]

Way too complex IMO. I would like to suggest an idea I've used in the past with a lot of success:

Second class as Subclass (or SCAS )
So, here is how it works:

When you gain your subclass, you gain the first level in a second class instead (just things listed on the class features table).
When you gain later subclass features, you gain two levels in your second class.
When you gain your next subclass feature, you gain two more levels in your second class.
When you gain your fourth subclass feature (or reach level 20), you gain the two final levels in your second class.
Note: Fighters don't gain their 5th subclass feature when multiclassing.

Example: Fighter multiclassing to Rogue.
Fighter at level 3 gains Rogue 1 features (again, everything on the class table, but no HP, no skills, etc.); Expertise, Sneak Attack (1d6), Thieves' Cant.
Fighter at level 7 gains Rogue 2 and 3 features; Cunning Action (no Roguish Archetype, of course), Sneak Attack (3d6).
Fighter at level 10 gains Rogue 4 and 5 features; ASI, Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack (5d6).
Fighter at level 15 gains Rogue 6 and 7 features; Expertise, Evasion, Sneak Attack (7d6).
Fighter gains nothing at level 18 if they multiclass (as noted above).

Anyway, I don't know if it will help with the issues you seem to be having or not, just throwing it out there for you to think on.

That is a neat idea, but problem is that various classes have various power levels of sub class features.

With your suggestion, paladins would jump to multiclass with anything.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That is a neat idea, but problem is that various classes have various power levels of sub class features.

A bit maybe, but when we've used it we never had any issue. It would be better if the classes had been designed with the idea in mind, but meh.

With your suggestion, paladins would jump to multiclass with anything.

They already can, so I'm not sure what your point is. Unless you mean about how strong the Paladin's core class features are comparatively to other classes? Which again, is an unfortunate side effect of this concept not being part of the design from the beginning. shrug

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think many new rules consider dipping a class as a bug, while it actually isna feature.
If you compare it with ADnD style, if you multiclass wizard with fighter you are a few levels in spellcasting behind. As expected. And have some fighter features, as expected. This is what you get with a 2 levek fighter dip.

 

[Horwath]

I think many new rules consider dipping a class as a bug, while it actually isna feature.
If you compare it with ADnD style, if you multiclass wizard with fighter you are a few levels in spellcasting behind. As expected. And have some fighter features, as expected. This is what you get with a 2 levek fighter dip.

Yeah, I hate dipping.
But multiclassing is usualy bad choice outside few cheese builds.

my suggestion would be even split only with classes with bonus class levels at certain character levels.

I.E. 5th level multiclass fighter/wizard would have 3 class levels of fighter and 3 class levels of wizard.
the "dual" level would get middle ground HP of both classes (6+4)/2 in this case. And middle HD, d8 in this case.

every 3 levels from 5th you get one "dual" level, so at 20th level you end up with 13 class levels in both classes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah, I hate dipping.
But multiclassing is usualy bad choice outside few cheese builds.

my suggestion would be even split only with classes with bonus class levels at certain character levels.

I.E. 5th level multiclass fighter/wizard would have 3 class levels of fighter and 3 class levels of wizard.
the "dual" level would get middle ground HP of both classes (6+4)/2 in this case. And middle HD, d8 in this case.

every 3 levels from 5th you get one "dual" level, so at 20th level you end up with 13 class levels in both classes.

You can do it that way for certain. 13 level seems like a good endpoint. You get hitdice and proficiency bonus for your actual character level I guess, so 3/3 even split gets 5d8 and proficiency bonus +3?

Probably you want your first dual level at 3, so you don´t lag too much behind for subclass:

1/0
1/1
2/2
2/3
3/3
-------
4/4
5/4
5/5
6/6
7/6
---------
7/7
8/8
8/9
9/9
10/10
----------
10/11
11/11
12/12
12/13
13/13

One thing I would do here is only giving one ability score increase at class level 4 -> so 3 from that.
So you jus need to give some extra at some character levels. Maybe on the other "jump" levels: 6/6 (character level 8) and 10/10 (character level 14)

 

[Horwath]

You can do it that way for certain. 13 level seems like a good endpoint. You get hitdice and proficiency bonus for your actual character level I guess, so 3/3 even split gets 5d8 and proficiency bonus +3?

Probably you want your first dual level at 3, so you don´t lag too much behind for subclass:

1/0
1/1
2/2
2/3
3/3
-------
4/4
5/4
5/5
6/6
7/6
---------
7/7
8/8
8/9
9/9
10/10
----------
10/11
11/11
12/12
12/13
13/13

One thing I would do here is only giving one ability score increase at class level 4 -> so 3 from that.
So you jus need to give some extra at some character levels. Maybe on the other "jump" levels: 6/6 (character level 8) and 10/10 (character level 14)

3/3 at level 5 is best IMHO as you get two 3rd level features to compete with 3+5 of single class. And it's beginning of tier2 gameplay so 1st dual level makes sense here. and you get 3rd dual level at lvl11(tier3) 5th dual level at lvl17(tier4) and final dual level on 20th level(instead of capstone).

And all classes are quite front loaded in first two levels, so I would wait a few levels before dual classing

as for HDs, 5th level fighter wizard could have 5d8 or 2d10, 2d6 and 1d8 if you want to be more precise. And that gives more combinations if you lack only few HPs during short rest.

 

[GlassJaw]

The power difference between single classed and optimized multiclassed characters bothers me. I think it also gets a little worse with every new rulebook that comes out (now TCE). I had been runnning a no multiclassing game but have been looking at other options to open things up.

In 95%+ cases, multiclassing is the poor optimization choice. You lose so much by multiclassing in 5E.

The optimal multiclass builds usually involve the paladin and warlock, maybe bard. Just monitor why the player wants to multiclass and you'll be fine. I would also argue that the "optimal" multiclass builds aren't all that amazing anyway.