Lord Pendragon
First Post
I think someone needs to re-read Dragonriders of Pern. All or mostly female heroes? Not the book I remember, that's for sure... 
You asked~Female gamers
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Totally with you, BD!
So much of it is seeing yourself in the role of the hero. If you don't see people like yourself in the imagary of the material, you don't see it as something that is open to you. And I think that's true of all things, from gaming to hockey to police to scientists. When they see women (or, pick any group that doesn't have the accessability to something) doing those things, more of them say, "I want to do it, too! And I can!"
Sailor Moon is good for that. When we see that women aren't just antagonists or love interests that are the focus for male leads, we get interested. I'd say gaming, in general, is getting better at graphically depicting women. Even things as simple as seeing about half or so of an RPG's sample characters being women in a wide range of roles means so much.
So much of it is seeing yourself in the role of the hero. If you don't see people like yourself in the imagary of the material, you don't see it as something that is open to you. And I think that's true of all things, from gaming to hockey to police to scientists. When they see women (or, pick any group that doesn't have the accessability to something) doing those things, more of them say, "I want to do it, too! And I can!"
Sailor Moon is good for that. When we see that women aren't just antagonists or love interests that are the focus for male leads, we get interested. I'd say gaming, in general, is getting better at graphically depicting women. Even things as simple as seeing about half or so of an RPG's sample characters being women in a wide range of roles means so much.
Wow - I'm amazed this thread hasn't imploded yet 
. People have been quite good here I think.
ANyway, I think I can speak on this issue. Though I'm a male, there has almost always been at least one woman in my group for the last 15 years. I personally haven't noticed any difference between male/female gamers as far as hack and slash or RP. My sister, in fact, usually plays either a sorcerer that will blow the crap out of anything that gets in her way or a warrior that will cut the crap out of anything that gets in her way. The group's role players tend to be the males.
As far as artwork, I personally like watered down porn, but agree that shouldn't be all that there is. Something for everyone. The 3e art is quite good on this point. In fact, I was at a friend's house making characters last week, and his stepdaughter, about 9, was looking through the books. She loved all the pictures of the girls in Sword and Fist and the other splatbooks. She thought it was really cool that "girls could kick butt too."
One other little point that might be of interest to the biology discussion. Desmond Morris in doing research on human sexuality went to nightclubs and took photographs and saliva samples from different women dancing there. He found a direct corellation between the amount of skin the girls were showing and how fertile they were. So much for 'no estrus in humans.'
(Not knocking women - we males are controlled MUCH more strongly by our physical urges IMO)
Another thing to consider is that saying "D&D encourages/discourages women" isn't really useful because the game is so adaptable. My game isn't your game, isn't the guy down the streets' game. One example given early was encounters where no matter what you do they will always attack you - this NEVER happens in my game. THey'll talk - you might not like what they say, but they'll talk if intelligent and able.
. People have been quite good here I think.ANyway, I think I can speak on this issue. Though I'm a male, there has almost always been at least one woman in my group for the last 15 years. I personally haven't noticed any difference between male/female gamers as far as hack and slash or RP. My sister, in fact, usually plays either a sorcerer that will blow the crap out of anything that gets in her way or a warrior that will cut the crap out of anything that gets in her way. The group's role players tend to be the males.
As far as artwork, I personally like watered down porn, but agree that shouldn't be all that there is. Something for everyone. The 3e art is quite good on this point. In fact, I was at a friend's house making characters last week, and his stepdaughter, about 9, was looking through the books. She loved all the pictures of the girls in Sword and Fist and the other splatbooks. She thought it was really cool that "girls could kick butt too."
One other little point that might be of interest to the biology discussion. Desmond Morris in doing research on human sexuality went to nightclubs and took photographs and saliva samples from different women dancing there. He found a direct corellation between the amount of skin the girls were showing and how fertile they were. So much for 'no estrus in humans.'
(Not knocking women - we males are controlled MUCH more strongly by our physical urges IMO)
Another thing to consider is that saying "D&D encourages/discourages women" isn't really useful because the game is so adaptable. My game isn't your game, isn't the guy down the streets' game. One example given early was encounters where no matter what you do they will always attack you - this NEVER happens in my game. THey'll talk - you might not like what they say, but they'll talk if intelligent and able.
*drools madly*
Can't...wait...for BUFFY RPG...
Anywho, you know, my Barbies were Super-Spies. You can thank the aweful, hairflipping Charlies Angels for that, though my dolls were much more like Alias in retrospect. More butt-kicking. For justice.
She even carried a gun in the glove compartment of her pink car.
Top Secret was the second RPG I ever played. Surprised? I'm not.
Can't...wait...for BUFFY RPG...
Anywho, you know, my Barbies were Super-Spies. You can thank the aweful, hairflipping Charlies Angels for that, though my dolls were much more like Alias in retrospect. More butt-kicking. For justice.
She even carried a gun in the glove compartment of her pink car. Top Secret was the second RPG I ever played. Surprised? I'm not.
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Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
I currently run a game with seven female players. One of them tried the game in high school; her character died in the first fifteen minutes, and the boys she was playing with refused to let her roll up a new PC. "This game is stupid," she said, and didn't try it again for eighteen years.
I'm finding that this isn't uncommon. One of my other players tried to play with GMs who were rules-heavy, tactically inclined, and who dissected every tactic that the other players made. Fun? Not so much. I'm amazed she cared enough to want to try it again.
I'll echo others, by the way, when I say that the paucity of clothed female figurines and lack of truly heroic female-centric fantasy art doesn't help. It's been commented on by my players.
Other than that, though, there's not really any stereotypes that apply to the players. One or two of them love kicking monster butt, two of them prefer to roleplay, and several of them are interested in puzzle solving. Just what you'd expect.
They keep me honest, though. One of the players is a Ph.D. scientist who was curious about the game. I helped her rough out a character; when she showed up at her first game, she looked at me with concern. "I think you missed two skill points," she said. "I get a synergy bonus for one of these." I figured she'd fit in just fine.
I'm finding that this isn't uncommon. One of my other players tried to play with GMs who were rules-heavy, tactically inclined, and who dissected every tactic that the other players made. Fun? Not so much. I'm amazed she cared enough to want to try it again.
I'll echo others, by the way, when I say that the paucity of clothed female figurines and lack of truly heroic female-centric fantasy art doesn't help. It's been commented on by my players.
Other than that, though, there's not really any stereotypes that apply to the players. One or two of them love kicking monster butt, two of them prefer to roleplay, and several of them are interested in puzzle solving. Just what you'd expect.
They keep me honest, though. One of the players is a Ph.D. scientist who was curious about the game. I helped her rough out a character; when she showed up at her first game, she looked at me with concern. "I think you missed two skill points," she said. "I get a synergy bonus for one of these." I figured she'd fit in just fine.
Zelda Themelin
First Post
Balsamic Dragon said:
Well, not quite misinterpreted. Thing just happens to be, that among people I've met, some boys have taken liking to Sailor Moon anime/rpg but most girls have not. This might be different from place to place, and few yonger girls who have liked it here, have been mostly 8 years old.
I am not claiming to have that wide knowledge of people's likings, however. But I do know, that very few people are familiar with Sailor Moon in Finland, D&D however is much more known.
There is another problem with Sailor Moon. Most girls like fantasy, and Sailor moon is semi-fantasy (modern school-girl elements etc). I don't think it would be best game to begin with, especially if starting to play with boy-group. Also, most girls are interested about 'stuff boys like', when they want to join rpg-group, and they don't want to see 'girl-adventure'-stuff only.
If you make game introduction to yonger realative or your daughter and her friends, or Sailor moon runs on tv/videos are popular, it might be more appealing. That, however is not case here in Finland. We only have Digimon/Pokemon/X-Men shows running in tv.
Like I said, this is very much matter of preferance.
I just think one should not presume, but find out what kind of stuff interest particular boy/girl/man/woman. It could be fantasy, sci-fi, horror, superheroes or agent stuff (like James Bond) or you name it.
Good role-playing for girls is not about playing girl hero. It is about playing any hero/villain/powerful being. Male, female or monster, it's all matter of preferance.
I understand your idea better now, however, that just wouldn't be thing here, unless we have that tv-show first, after which situation might change.
I was mostly speaking of girls from 11 years to adult age, since it's always another matter to play with young relatives and their as young friends. Very few girls or boys have this 'luxury' of role-playing family-members/relatives.
Oh, remains be of times my 8-year old little sister tried gamemastering. Hehe, that was complite monty-haul game with 12th level magic spells found in first dungeon. She didn't have complitely understaning of AD&D rules, but she did know that 9th level of spells was 'normal limit' (her world had 15th level spells), oh, and doors made complitely out of gold in natural stone dungeons, and our first quest was from goddess of magic, and our first level character kicked ass of demon-god and it's army with help of super-npc's, summonable elemental-spirits and uber-artifacts. She had also made maps for every place, and drawn pictures of 60 or so npc.
Btw, there is Xena/Hercules rpg out there. I happen to own the boxed set. Well, since you listed Sailor Moon and said just 'one'.
Darklone
Registered User
Re: Re: Re: Re: My 2 cents, well actually closer to a buck fifty
Hmm... Yeah. She chased her mate away. That's it It's gotten better now, he's one year old, but she scarcely let her husband care for the kid... and complained OTOH that he didn't care about the kid
About that other comment... whoever said it with skin and fertility... Last bioscientific thing I read about that was that women are always dominated by their hormons, that's why men don't understand them and why noone notices...
This may be a bit harsh, so I add: This is not my opinion. I will try to find the article though if you feel offended so you can complain there. Btw, this article was written by females...
WizarDru said:
Hmm... Yeah. She chased her mate away. That's it
It's gotten better now, he's one year old, but she scarcely let her husband care for the kid... and complained OTOH that he didn't care about the kid About that other comment... whoever said it with skin and fertility... Last bioscientific thing I read about that was that women are always dominated by their hormons, that's why men don't understand them and why noone notices...
This may be a bit harsh, so I add: This is not my opinion.
I will try to find the article though if you feel offended so you can complain there. Btw, this article was written by females...
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Zelda Themelin
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My 2 cents, well actually closer to a buck fifty
Hehe, by all means do.
After following newest scientific/psychological 'truths' for last 25 years, newest discoveries sound pretty hilarous.
It's not about whatever something is true, or believingly sounding, but fact how much 'truth' of discoveries tends to change all the time. Theories also go out of fashion sometimes, only to come around again. A bit like with clothes.
Oh, and women saying, men don't understand them, is a bit like myths around IT-business. Or like in Japan, where men and women speak same language, but still 'different one' (or at least, reading manga meant for boys or girls make it seem so).
Understand people is just, 'some do, some don't, some claim they do and still don't, some claim they don't, but in reality do'.
Though, it is sort of understandable how fascinated many people are about this 'pychological differences of male and female'-stuff. Great excuse to include heavy load of 'social porn', when you write books about it. I don't see other reason, those books sell so well, really. Just the same reason, talk shows are so popular.
I think I need some sleep, I am talking funny...
Darklone said:
Hehe, by all means do.
After following newest scientific/psychological 'truths' for last 25 years, newest discoveries sound pretty hilarous.
It's not about whatever something is true, or believingly sounding, but fact how much 'truth' of discoveries tends to change all the time. Theories also go out of fashion sometimes, only to come around again. A bit like with clothes.
Oh, and women saying, men don't understand them, is a bit like myths around IT-business. Or like in Japan, where men and women speak same language, but still 'different one' (or at least, reading manga meant for boys or girls make it seem so).
Understand people is just, 'some do, some don't, some claim they do and still don't, some claim they don't, but in reality do'.
Though, it is sort of understandable how fascinated many people are about this 'pychological differences of male and female'-stuff. Great excuse to include heavy load of 'social porn', when you write books about it. I don't see other reason, those books sell so well, really. Just the same reason, talk shows are so popular.
I think I need some sleep, I am talking funny...
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