You hate "munchkin"? Here's the term *I* hate!

[Dinkeldog]

Tom, the way you let your panties get in a bunch over this, I'd say, yes, you are a drama queen. At least, though, you criticized Psion for what he wrote instead of what you wanted him to write so that you could criticize him. Still, though. Way too much drama. Eddie and Patsy want to buy you a drink, darling.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Tom, the way you let your panties get in a bunch over this, I'd say, yes, you are a drama queen.

I thought the meant something?

It's useless to pour gasoline once the fire's gone out, Dinkel. Better go back to your bratwurst and beer now. Ja, das ist gut. Essen Sie. Trinken Sie.

Now I'll go untwist this damn thong...

 

[Tsyr]

I heard someone in the game store refer to his group as a "troupe", like they were all actors or something. They were Vampire players of course...

What does it really matter? I believe "troupe" is at least the semi-"official" word for a vampire group, although I don't pay much attention to the "what is roleplaying" chapters of my whitewolf books... And if the players/storyteller have never played anything but white wolf, why would they call it anything else? Besides, even if it's not (I could well be wrong), I say again, what does it matter what they call it?

And on a semi-related note...

I know this is a D20 board, DnD in specific, but do Vampire players have to be treated as some sort of outsider or second class citizen around here? I get the general impression that a lot of people here think of it that way, even if they never would say as much... Look, goth-freek vampire players aside, there really isn't much difference. We both, essentialy, do the same thing... play a game.

 

[rounser]

I think that's a cool idea.

Thanks.

By the way, I didn't get the impression that Duncan was very wise...

No? I've only read the first Dune book, the player knew more about him - I hear that he gets killed and cloned a lot, though! Come to think of it, that probably does imply something about his wisdom.

What was particularly unwise about him?

 

[Tom Cashel]

I know this is a D20 board, DnD in specific, but do Vampire players have to be treated as some sort of outsider or second class citizen around here? I get the general impression that a lot of people here think of it that way, even if they never would say as much... Look, goth-freek vampire players aside, there really isn't much difference. We both, essentialy, do the same thing... play a game.

Extremely good point, Tsyr.

"There is no war. There are no sides. There is only the game."

 

[Dinkeldog]

Tom, I've changed my mind.

I want you as my DM.

I won't ever take ranks in Bluff or Diplomacy, since I can act fairly well.

Similarly, I'll recommend to my friends that can't never to take them, either, since they'll always fail because they're not going to be good at bluffing as improv.

It's a lot easier to choose skills to spend precious ranks on when you know that the DM has eradicated all social skills.

I also won't waste a decent stat on Charisma, since it has no effect. All of my characters will have the same Charisma that I have.

That's so much better.

 

[Henry]

Last month I espoused a point on Monte Cook's web site, and I will paraphrase it here:

I firmly believe that we would all here likely be totally surprised if we were to sit in on each others' games. Why? because I would be willing to bet that 80% or more of us here play D&D in exactly the same way.

By that, I mean that we would all likely have about the same mix of role-play, dice-rolling, time spent for OOC conversation before or after the game, and (for those of us who game more than 4 hours in a stretch) sharing of lunch or dinner while we share conversation.

Gaming is, at it's heart, NOT about telling a story, or 'winning', or any of the high-minded concepts that so many message board jockeys love to espouse. It is at its heart, a social activity, and a way to commune with peers.

Does anyone deny this? WHO do you game with? Why do you even go? Do you like the people you game with? Have you EVER spoken to these people about the weather, about their daily lives, shared stories with them about the previous week, or given trivial advice or received any? These are the hallmarks of friendships and acquaintences, and the hallmarks of socialization. Nothing more basic than that. It's why people have gathered to play charades for a hundred years, and why people have played boggle, monopoly, and Clue (Cluedo) for the past sixty or so.

The purpose of a game is to be a fun, social pastime. Without this basic element, it cannot be defined as such. Note that a game can always be played competitvely. But a competitive exercise cannot always be called a game. Real-life combat, for example, is NOT fun for the people so engaged. If it is, seek a counselor.

No one should fool oneself into believing that an RPG is about storytelling, or artistic expression, or even "beating the heck out of Asmodeus." These goals are all secondary to the goal of social interaction with friends. And if you are accomplishing THAT goal, you are accomplishing the goal of the game.

 

[Psion]

Re: Re: Re: You hate "munchkin"? Here's the term *I* hate!

"There is no war. There are no sides. There is only the game."

Funny, I think you are missing your own point here.

What I was saying is that the use of dice does not imply that the players are not role-playing and I find implications to that effect annoying.

In other words, they are not ends of a spectrum.

You can be a Master Thespian at the gaming table, but without a decent Bluff or Diplomacy check to go along with it, it's worthless. By the same token, you can have 72 ranks in Innuendo, but as DM I'm still going to make you try, just a little bit, to role-play the situation before you roll dice.

And I would too. Do you care to tell me where the hell you got the impression that I didn't? In fact, if you really did (as dinkledog suggested) read my post, you will see where I praise the method of DM assessment of the role-playing alongside the use of dice:

"Just use the GMs impressions of how beleivable the portrayal is and use that as a modifier to the dice roll."

 

[Tom Cashel]

Tom, I've changed my mind.

I want you as my DM.

I won't ever take ranks in Bluff or Diplomacy, since I can act fairly well.

Similarly, I'll recommend to my friends that can't never to take them, either, since they'll always fail because they're not going to be good at bluffing as improv.

It's a lot easier to choose skills to spend precious ranks on when you know that the DM has eradicated all social skills.

I also won't waste a decent stat on Charisma, since it has no effect. All of my characters will have the same Charisma that I have.

That's so much better.

Dinkeldog...you drama queen.

"Have IQs dropped sharply while I was away?" If you read my post again, you'll see that you read it wrong the first time. You can't have one without the other. "There are no sides. There is only the game."

Once more, for the incredibly slow among us: my opinion is that acting skill does not substitute for skill ranks, nor do skill ranks substitute for trying to act like your character. They work together. We're talking synergy, man, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Bucky Fuller D20, my friend.

I can't believe you called me a drama queen and then posted that sulky rant. Eddie and Patsy are waiting for you in the bar...with a nice big bratwurst...

 

[rounser]

Similarly, I'll recommend to my friends that can't never to take them, either, since they'll always fail because they're not going to be good at bluffing as improv.

How is this different from always making bad tactical decisions on the battlemap for each PC played, because the player is bad at tactics?

I also won't waste a decent stat on Charisma, since it has no effect. All of my characters will have the same Charisma that I have.

If you're as good an actor as you claim, you should be able to roleplay charisma less than your own, when you want to.

You have points Dinkeldog, and I agree with them, but I think that what makes sense with regards to mapping PC ability to player ability depends on what you focus on in particular.