Your Bet on Licensing

How would you bet on 4E licensing?

  • Totally open. OGL used once again.

    Votes: 3 2.6%
  • More restricted. License only like d20 STL/GSL.

    Votes: 46 40.0%
  • Very restricted. No general license; unique deals signed with preferred publishers.

    Votes: 56 48.7%
  • No outside licensing whatsoever.

    Votes: 10 8.7%

  • Poll closed .
My expectation (not prediction) is that 4e will be extremely closed, with a window dressing license so WotC can say, "look, it is out there". It is probably not going to be a perpetual license, and after a few years, I expect it will be substituted with some sort of contractual 3rd party agreement on an individual basis. And if DDI catches on, not even that.

What I find more interesting is that it is not going to be an unpopular move at all - it seems to me that since about the release of 3.5 and the collapse of the d20 market, there has been a very strong "official materials only" movement which believes in a certain "game design magic" Wizards of the Coast, and only Wizards of the Coast, is supposed to have. A lot of these folks are remarkably hostile not only to 3rd party materials but the very idea of allowing them to exist. Just read the recent threads.

Open gaming will be gone, and not with lengthy protestations - rather, with a whimper and a sigh.
 

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My expectation (not prediction) is that 4e will be extremely closed, with a window dressing license so WotC can say, "look, it is out there".

I'm hoping it's the second option, a more restrictive license but not a "only a few licenses who pay a significant fee" version. The silence from WoTC however worries me, so I'm starting to feel it's more likely the third option on the poll.

What I find more interesting is that it is not going to be an unpopular move at all - it seems to me that since about the release of 3.5 and the collapse of the d20 market, there has been a very strong "official materials only" movement which believes in a certain "game design magic" Wizards of the Coast, and only Wizards of the Coast, is supposed to have. A lot of these folks are remarkably hostile not only to 3rd party materials but the very idea of allowing them to exist. Just read the recent threads.

The "official stuff only" has existed for a long time. Most people usually care about the core product or brand. This exists in other media too. I'm surprised more comics readers care more about the character that the writer--I was so disappointed when Chris Claremont left X-Men in the early 90s and sales still went upward on the books. Heck, some people refuse to go outside one company's output--there are still "Marvel Zombies", for instance. Same thing with gaming--there were people who never tried a game not published by TSR, for example. People are even less loyal to gaming writers than to comic/fiction writers--you can get people who buy only Gary Gygax or Monte Cook works, for instance, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the game world and setting.

I think realistically, most people purchased official D&D stuff and stuck with it. I had more discriminating tastes, for instance, seeing WoTC lose a lot of the TSR culture I felt was important to D&D, and ignored some of the later D&D 3e stuff for products from Monte Cook and Green Ronin.

I also think maybe some people are or were irritated with the more "dogmatic" viewpoints about the OGL. I think having a license is wonderful but I would get irritated with people who would blast Monte Cook or other publishers for having "crippled OGL", or react with umbrage when I would mention that it might not be seen as nice to take Unearthed Arcana, True20, and other rules and put them on-line for free. Ultimately, most of us want to play the game and purchase quality products, so maybe some of that dismissiveness is a reaction to the more zealous viewpoints towards the OGL.

Ultimately, I think most people just want to play the game. Open Gaming for Open Gaming's sake is a minority viewpoint. We don't need an OGL to create our worlds and modules in private, and the OGL itself isn't required for the D&D system to be licensed. (I do hope there is a GSL with enough leeway). As long as Wizards doesn't get lawsuit happy and attack people putting personal campaign information on-line I don't see much of a backlash to the licensing issue.

I think more people are going to be put off by the radical game changes than any license change when it comes to 4e support. I would actually feel proud if a significant block of players stuck with 3.x+ rules, it would show that people aren't slaves to the brand, but based on past experience I wonder if that would be a reality. Nobody's on top forever, but there seems to be enough excitement and enthusiasm for D&D 4e.
 
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Melan said:
What I find more interesting is that it is not going to be an unpopular move at all - it seems to me that since about the release of 3.5 and the collapse of the d20 market, there has been a very strong "official materials only" movement which believes in a certain "game design magic" Wizards of the Coast, and only Wizards of the Coast, is supposed to have. A lot of these folks are remarkably hostile not only to 3rd party materials but the very idea of allowing them to exist. Just read the recent threads.

Open gaming will be gone, and not with lengthy protestations - rather, with a whimper and a sigh.

I find the shift pretty remarkable as well. Do you think WoTC does 'Guerilla Marketing' on these boards? I have noticed that a lot of the anti-OGL/pro-Hasbro posts come from accounts with very low post counts, which have recently become extremely prolific. And when I look at the posting history, it's defense of 4E and nothing else.

Ken
 

It's a major bother to me, personally, since by far the biggest beneficiaries of my gaming dollars have been, in order, Necromancer, Green Ronin, Troll Lords, Kenzer, Malhavoc, and then a host of other companies. The WotC portion of my gaming library has always been small, and quite frankly, it's been shrinking for a couple of years now. I've felt, again - personally, that the best D&D 3.x books, once you are past the core and a handful of other books, are done by third party publishers. I stopped even bothering with most WotC books about two years ago. I feel that their quality went through the floor around then.

So, without a strong 3rd party presence, I'm pretty much done with WotC. Of course, since I have no plans to go 4the Edition, that's probably no loss to WotC. But it a major loss for me, if WotC nixes third party support and all the companies I have supported all these years go the way of the dodo.
 

Greylock said:
So, without a strong 3rd party presence, I'm pretty much done with WotC. Of course, since I have no plans to go 4the Edition, that's probably no loss to WotC. But it a major loss for me, if WotC nixes third party support and all the companies I have supported all these years go the way of the dodo.

I don't follow your point here. Since you had no plans to go to 4E anyway what do you care about at this point regarding 3rd parties? I mean even if 4e is open you aren't going to support these 3rd parties anyway, aren't you?
 

Alzrius said:
I really wish more 3.5E material from WotC was in the SRD, but I don't think it'll ever see another update.
Meh. I wish more 3.0e material from WotC added to the SRD, even if it is citing page and text line references.
 

xechnao said:
I don't follow your point here. Since you had no plans to go to 4E anyway what do you care about at this point regarding 3rd parties? I mean even if 4e is open you aren't going to support these 3rd parties anyway, aren't you?

It is probable, and I'd guess likely, that 3rd party publishers would likely support both systems for as long as it is viable. Unlike WotC, which obviously has discontinued all 3.x support. But more than likely, if 4th Edition is not OGL, my top favorite publisher Necromancer has already said in clear terms that they are closing their doors. My other current favorite, Troll Lords, will have to rely solely on C&C. I don't know what Green Ronin's intentions are, but they rely I think on the occasional non-True20 materials to supplement their lines. The rest of the publishers, the really small ones, are already dying and who know who will be left whatever WotC decides.
 

Greylock said:
It is probable, and I'd guess likely, that 3rd party publishers would likely support both systems for as long as it is viable. Unlike WotC, which obviously has discontinued all 3.x support. But more than likely, if 4th Edition is not OGL, my top favorite publisher Necromancer has already said in clear terms that they are closing their doors. My other current favorite, Troll Lords, will have to rely solely on C&C. I don't know what Green Ronin's intentions are, but they rely I think on the occasional non-True20 materials to supplement their lines. The rest of the publishers, the really small ones, are already dying and who know who will be left whatever WotC decides.

As long as it is viable for companies to support both channels, it is still viable to support the one that is limited to them, whichever that is. What I mean is that you are not going to lose any company's support because of 4e being closed. Those that won't support 3e anymore they wouldn't even if 4e were open.
 

Haffrung Helleyes said:
I find the shift pretty remarkable as well. Do you think WoTC does 'Guerilla Marketing' on these boards? I have noticed that a lot of the anti-OGL/pro-Hasbro posts come from accounts with very low post counts, which have recently become extremely prolific. And when I look at the posting history, it's defense of 4E and nothing else.

Ken
No, I don't really think that is the case... it wouldn't be too productive, even in such a large community, and I doubt WotC is subtle or even malicious enough to pull it off. When their marketing does guerilla marketing, it is that video with the French guy. :D

It is, I think, some sort of natural attitude shift among fans. I have been seeing it for a long time (more strongly regimented play, emphasis on an official stance, disdain for variants and house rules, sometimes extending to DM powers), 4e just brought it into the light.
 


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