Your issue with Psionics

[NewbyDM]

IMO,

The problem with psionics, is that there are lovers and haters... and whatever system you use, people will always be in one of the groups. When you use a skill & feat system people will say it is to differently and won't use it, when it stays like this people say it is to similar to spells and the 2nd system was just to broken to bring back.

 

[Nifft]

What I hate:

Psi Combat: Ooo, extra rules with custom TABLES!
IMC, I nix all Psi Combat. I'm considering Mindscapes if any player wants a Psionic character.

MAD: Everyone knows why to hate this, but I don't just hate the weakness: I also hate that you can use your physical stats for spellcasting. MENTAL powers, MENTAL stats.
IMC, I assigned two Disciplines to each Mental stat. Cuts down on MAD while retaining the original "mad flavah".

Psionic/Magic: I'd like clear rules on what to do if you prefer the Psionics Are Different option.
IMC, I added "Negate Magic" & "Dispel Psionics" each as a 5th level power & spell. However, I'd like more & better rules.

Delayed Power Levels: I dislike how Sorcerer-like the Psion is. IMHO, he should get his 'd' power at odd levels.
IMC, I do this. Psions gain Powers earlier. However, they don't gain Power Points earlier, so using that high-cost Power is severely limited.

Psychic Warrior Power List: In the Core rules, MAD limits him, but I'd prefer if he had to use his Mental stats for Powers and got a wider selection of them. Lesser Body Adjustment, for example.

-- N

 

[Gellion]

Psionics (partially by name, partially by "flavour") feels like it should be restricted to sci-fi (or science fantasy, a la John Carter) campaigns. They just never felt very medieval.

As is your wont, although D&D doesnt have to be set in a Medieval period.

 

[Tonguez]

For this reason, one suggestion does occur: the other thing that drives me nuts in terms of the genre is the monk (if only monks had just been kept in OA and taken out of the core rules...) -- perhaps the new system could integrate psionic abilities with the chi concept the monks use. Just a shot in the dark from someone who uses neither.

Yep Psychic Warriors make much better Monks than Monks do and Monks with Speed of Thought and Up the Walls rock

 

[Estlor]

What'd I'd change in 3.5e Psionics is the following:

Psions: They need to be tweaked to be on par with the power level of the sorcerer. I'm not sure if giving them more power points is enough of an answer, but it's a suggestion. Also the option to take a combat mode or a metapsionic feat would be better than being forced to gain a new combat mode.

Psionic Combat: I haven't read Mindscapes so I don't know how they handle it, but psionic combat needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up.

Power Scaling: Psionic powers need to be scalable in some fair manner, otherwise you can spend too many powers known slots on the same power chain. I'm not saying let the 1st level power scale up to a 9th level power's damage potential, but maybe let the psion "overdrive" the power a couple of levels if they choose.

Ability Score Connections: They need to stop the one discipline for each ability score thing. I understand the psionic generalist is something they want to stay away from, but the suggested two disciplines per mental ability score seems like it would work really well - just like ITCK's secondary disciplines.

Powers: I'd like to see a little less overlap with existing D&D spells. It sort of does away with the need for psionics.

Psionic/Magic Interaction: Instead of the the same yet different approach they should use the different yet the same approach where there is SOME overlap, but spell resistance and dispel magic are less effective against psionics and vice versa.

 

[Psion]

has anyone started a psionic character after 3.5 came out?

There is a psychic warrior in my 3.25 game that I started last month. So far no difficulties. But I should emphasize I use mindcapes, which handles IMO the bona fide issued with 3e psionics: weakness of psions as a class, lack of scaling, and psionic combat.

Psionic/Magic Interaction: Instead of the the same yet different approach they should use the different yet the same approach where there is SOME overlap, but spell resistance and dispel magic are less effective against psionics and vice versa.

There are variant rules in the PsiHB that provide for "weak interaction".

 

[Staffan]

A big problem with psionics is that they don't really have a niche. Basically, when they made the PHB they divided up most of the interesting special powers between druids, clerics and wizards (with a lot of overlap and a few powers being exclusive to the lesser spellcasters). Then they add psionics, but almost all the powers are already taken. So, psions get pretty much the same powers as wizards, with some taken from the others, and some flavor changes made and a level or two changed. The problem is, you can't really lower the levels on too much of the psi-themed stuff from the wizard stuff because that would unbalance things.

I think the psion would be much more interesting if wizards didn't have access to things like telekinesis and domination, giving psions more of their own schtick.

 

[maddman75]

I dislike the entire concept of psions. The way they are made and always have been for D&D is IMO wrong. They don't model anything. You can't use the psychic rules to make a psychic character out of literature. If you want a psion, make a sorcerer except don't take any good combat spells. The psychic warrior is cool, a fighter with a few mental abilities.

A psychic is generally a one trick pony. A given psychic should be able to do one thing, frequently and to great effect, but have no other real powers. As they go up in level their control over their given power would increase. So you might have a telepath that can read minds and project thoughts. But that is all. Or a pyronetic, who can start fires. Again, nothing more. No long list of spellsH^H^H^powers they can castH^H^H^manifest, but multiple applications of a single power.

As long as they still look like mages with the flavor text changed around, I'm not really interested.

 

[I'm A Banana]

People bemoaning the weakness of psions are ignoring, I think, the REASON for psions.

It's not to replace the party sorcerer or wizard -- a sorcerer or wizard does that.

Psions are quite simply the most versatile spellcasting class around, period. More skill points, better skills, and a wider selection of capabilities that make a single psion able to heal, teleport, affect someone's mind, and lash out with damage and stunning on occasoin, whereas most spellcasters would be limited.

In this light, the MAD sucks, since it forces more of a focus. It's not bad because you *require* high stats all around -- you don't. It's bad because if you're an 'average' character, you get smacked in the versatility area, which is the psion's primary advantage over other spellcasters.

So, IMC, the solution is to keep the idea of discplines being linked to ability scores, just allowing them to use powers they wouldn't normally be allowed to -- if you have a Dex of 8, you can still use Psychoportation powers, and still use them competently -- even if your DC is 9 + power level. Who needs a good DC for psychoportation?!

In a different light, the psionic combat does suck. IMC, it's ditched and replaced with a bonus feat every 5 levels. Which mirrors the more 'natural magic' feel of psionics better too, IMHO. A psion's magic should affect and alter their basic bodily form in more permanent and integral levels than normal arcane and divine magic. Also, they need to be more distant from the sorcerer -- the 'psionic familiar' is kinda lame, and maybe giving them light armor proficiency (or a higher HD?) instead is sensible.

A more stubtle problem could be the difficulty in playing a psionic character in a campaign where the DM doesn't actively consider them. Because going by the default tables, the DM will never roll a psionic treasure, will never uncover a psionic magic item, will never have an enemy with a psionic power stone.....so that doubly sux for the psion PC.

I love psionics, and I use them a lot. But it does need some polish -- some things to make sure people don't mistake them for 'sorcerers with more skill points and no FIREBALL.' Something to make it clear that psionics are a whole different animal, even if they're superficially similar to magic.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Personally, though psionics are an interesting element to add to a game, I really don't think that they should be that mechanically different from magic in D&D, esp. since D&D does not make major distinctions between arcane & divine magic in the game (no penalties or bonuses when using divine magic against arcane & vice-versa, etc.).

IMHO, there are few psionic powers that scream out "psychic" to me--psychokinesis, ESP, & telepathy are a few. However, there are some psychic abilities which just come off as magical abilities or superpowers to me--the power that allows you to transform your limb into an animal's clawed limb comes to mind.

I hated 2nd ed. AD&D's interpretation of psionics, & I have seen players abuse the system to gain some edge in the game. I'd be very happy to never see that occur again.

I'd be glad to see the various specialty psions as per 3E PsiHB go away: I'd prefer to see a core psion class, with specialists for certain disciplines created the same way a specialist wizard is. The main power-related ability should either be Wisdom or Charisma. For simplicity, it should use the 10+DC mods for power DC, & slots for available powers/day, much like spellcasters (for a simple system).

Alternate rules that use the d20+DC mods, power points, & other variants could be listed as variant rules for those who want them (much like the spell point variant rules in the upcoming Unearthed Arcana).

Psychic warrior can stay as is, but isolate psionic powers to using Wisdom or Charisma, instead of the MAD method.

Another option that I'd think would work (perhaps better, since IMHO, psychics have a primary power that is enhanced over time, & not a hodge-podge of various, unthematic psychic abilities) is to have the psion & psychic warrior class be feat-based, selecting psychic feats for their powers. These feats can be like normal feats, or more like special/supernatural abilities that can be used multiple times a day. The psion can have a few different abilities, or can be very good in one ability.

Finally, psionics could possibly be handled the way that FR 3.X deals with spellfire--take a specific feat at 1st level, then gain levels in a psychic prestige class to enhance the raw psychic talent.

I'm sure that there will always be someone who's unhappy with the way psionics work in D&D, despite what form it takes. Personally, I think additional rules should be easy to integrate & implement. As it stands now, I think psionics should undergo a good overhaul--let's just see if that what occurs in the new PsiHB.