billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Did Bushido do that?
I know Oriental Adventures for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons did, with honor points, though. It was pretty cool too.
your penalty for character death
- Thread starter Retreater
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Did Bushido do that?
I know Oriental Adventures for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons did, with honor points, though. It was pretty cool too.
One thing I'd consider, is balancing the options.
I assume that money and treasure distribution, as well as what happens to dead PCs to be an in-game party decision. As a GM, I might advise them to play nice, but I can't forbid them from doing things that are plausible in game.
1) In game, the players can solve a dead PC by spending 5K GP and the PC losing a level.* I would assume this solution doesn't get the player back in the game right away, as the party would need an in-game opportunity to be able to do so (like walking back to town with the body).
2) If the dead PC had a henchmen, they could actively take him over (certainly a practical "keep playing" solution. This HPC is presumably 2 levels behind the PC per the henchman rules. It may also be assumed this henchman will wander away if the PC doesn't make him a full PC (as he his buddy is dead and nobody else paid for the Leadership feat to have him).
3) Or the GM has the player bring in a new PC (whether pre-gen or not, that's secondary). This is where the "Death Tax" topic really comes into play. It can certainly be defined that a PC with a Henchman paid for that opportunity with a Feat.
I think it would be fair to say that the "new PC" solution should not be worse or better than the first 2 options. if it was better, than players who choose to drive their henchman got screwed. If it was worse (especially worse than #1), than the player gets screwed by the rest of the party because they refused to get him raised. This could actually be considered a PvP attack. Sure, they didn't kill him, but they took advantage that he was down to loot his body and keep his stuff so his new PC comes in worse than if they'd raised him.
*I wonder what level the OP was that the party couldn't pony up 5K, yet still invested so much into their PCs that losing one sucked.
Since part of the problem revolves around equipment and "wealth by leve" would it be fair to declare some expected rules of in-character behavior towards gear?
If the new PC is the same kind of character as the old, the party has to give the new guy the dead guy's gear. perhaps roleplayed, "hey, we just lost a man, join us. By the way, you look like you need some equipment, we lost a man, and his stuff will probably fit you"
If the new PC is completely different, the gear must be returned to his family, buried with him, or donated to his church. Perhaps role played as the societal norm. As far as looting, only bad guys loot (monsters I kill). As a player, I've never opened a tomb and found a +2 sword I could use. I always got my stuff by killing monsters or BBEGs.
I assume that money and treasure distribution, as well as what happens to dead PCs to be an in-game party decision. As a GM, I might advise them to play nice, but I can't forbid them from doing things that are plausible in game.
1) In game, the players can solve a dead PC by spending 5K GP and the PC losing a level.* I would assume this solution doesn't get the player back in the game right away, as the party would need an in-game opportunity to be able to do so (like walking back to town with the body).
2) If the dead PC had a henchmen, they could actively take him over (certainly a practical "keep playing" solution. This HPC is presumably 2 levels behind the PC per the henchman rules. It may also be assumed this henchman will wander away if the PC doesn't make him a full PC (as he his buddy is dead and nobody else paid for the Leadership feat to have him).
3) Or the GM has the player bring in a new PC (whether pre-gen or not, that's secondary). This is where the "Death Tax" topic really comes into play. It can certainly be defined that a PC with a Henchman paid for that opportunity with a Feat.
I think it would be fair to say that the "new PC" solution should not be worse or better than the first 2 options. if it was better, than players who choose to drive their henchman got screwed. If it was worse (especially worse than #1), than the player gets screwed by the rest of the party because they refused to get him raised. This could actually be considered a PvP attack. Sure, they didn't kill him, but they took advantage that he was down to loot his body and keep his stuff so his new PC comes in worse than if they'd raised him.
*I wonder what level the OP was that the party couldn't pony up 5K, yet still invested so much into their PCs that losing one sucked.
Since part of the problem revolves around equipment and "wealth by leve" would it be fair to declare some expected rules of in-character behavior towards gear?
If the new PC is the same kind of character as the old, the party has to give the new guy the dead guy's gear. perhaps roleplayed, "hey, we just lost a man, join us. By the way, you look like you need some equipment, we lost a man, and his stuff will probably fit you"
If the new PC is completely different, the gear must be returned to his family, buried with him, or donated to his church. Perhaps role played as the societal norm. As far as looting, only bad guys loot (monsters I kill). As a player, I've never opened a tomb and found a +2 sword I could use. I always got my stuff by killing monsters or BBEGs.
that's a very clever idea actually. It also fits into the idea of reincarnation (which would fit thematically). Do good in this life, and the next life will be better. For an RPG, that's quite literal.
If GM wanted a scaling death tax, doing this math should work out such that a PC who died well would suffer no penalty. A PC who died by stupid player hand would suffer a penalty.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
This is what I've gradually moved towards in 3E and 4E play. Part of it is sheer laziness. We just don't get enough bang out of separate XP to worry about tracking it. When I found myself doing spreadsheets to handle 3.5 style XP tracking of different level characters, I realized that we might be spending more time on the that particular issue than was warranted.
But the main reason is that making the difference in equipment is a lot easier for the party to handle, to the degree that they want, when they want. And we like the old standbys for bringing the replacement in, especially the one where they rescue the poor captured character with no equipment. There is just something charming in the scene where the whole party starts looking through their stuff to help outfit the replacement, and it removes a lot of the sour taste from losing a character.
Plus, that is some sting for death, but if a series of deaths makes the sting too heavy, I can always be overly generous with equipment a few times to salve it a bit.
Krensky
First Post
In my recent games, if someone wants or needs to start a new PC, they come in at the current party XP, with standard starting coin and reputation (100 x Career Level silver and 10 x Career Level Rep). Of course there's also a Cheating Death mechanic which also makes the 'need' part less likely.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
You have to figure that if characters are dying on a regular basis, then perhaps the party getting a bit more overall loot without losing levels is not necessarily a bad thing. Consider it auto-balancing of your game.
Now, it might be a little much if your players are deliberately suiciding characters to gain loot or killing off new recruits in order to loot their bodies (in which case an out-of-game discussion is probably the most productive solution).
Now, it might be a little much if your players are deliberately suiciding characters to gain loot or killing off new recruits in order to loot their bodies (in which case an out-of-game discussion is probably the most productive solution).
I love that he is Sir Missalot now, and I really like the revenge character spirit--especially since my inference that they looted your character's body was dead on (pardon the pun). Jackals.
Anyway, I hope you can make it fun for you again. Some of my most fun characters have been the ones dubbed revenge characters. It's either that or leave the game. Enjoy.
I handle PC death several ways in my games. First of all I start every player with a get out of death free card.This is a player thing not a character thing so once you use it you don't get another one even if you bring in a new character.
When using it you are restored as if you hadn't died.
Raise dead is hard to find in my game because there is usually not enough high level clerics to do it. And there is an added hardship the god in question. By that I mean if you a mercenary out for yourself and don't care about the greater good don't expect a cleric of a good god like Pelor to raise you. You are going to have to take your chances with a more capricious or evil god and they usually add on some kind of geas.
Mechanical wise you come back one level lower than you were before.
I also have a house rule that you have some stat lose in your physical stats from the shock of dying. Your stats drop to a 8 and you gain back a point every 24 hours.
Reincarnation is easy to find and it cost nothing. The druids are happy to do it as long as your character has never harmed nature in a big way.
With reincarnation you take the chance of coming back as a different race but you come back at your same level as when you died.
If you bring another PC in it comes in one level lower than you were at your death. You get to equip yourself to your level. Magic items are rolled randomly and depending on the level and if the rest of the party have any special items then I will usually allow one picked item.
As for the problem of the dead PCs items if I think it has overpowered the group then I balance it out by not giving them magical treasure for a awhile.
When using it you are restored as if you hadn't died.
Raise dead is hard to find in my game because there is usually not enough high level clerics to do it. And there is an added hardship the god in question. By that I mean if you a mercenary out for yourself and don't care about the greater good don't expect a cleric of a good god like Pelor to raise you. You are going to have to take your chances with a more capricious or evil god and they usually add on some kind of geas.
Mechanical wise you come back one level lower than you were before.
I also have a house rule that you have some stat lose in your physical stats from the shock of dying. Your stats drop to a 8 and you gain back a point every 24 hours.
Reincarnation is easy to find and it cost nothing. The druids are happy to do it as long as your character has never harmed nature in a big way.
With reincarnation you take the chance of coming back as a different race but you come back at your same level as when you died.
If you bring another PC in it comes in one level lower than you were at your death. You get to equip yourself to your level. Magic items are rolled randomly and depending on the level and if the rest of the party have any special items then I will usually allow one picked item.
As for the problem of the dead PCs items if I think it has overpowered the group then I balance it out by not giving them magical treasure for a awhile.
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
The 'not pre-explaining how the Death Mechanic works' in your DM's campaign is problematic, unless past games were the same and there was nothing to suggest it was different this time.
The 'not being fair with different penalties' applied to different players is definitely wrong.
Otherwise whatever pre-agreed or pre-known penalties for PC Death is fine as long as everyone is treated equally and all are aware of it.
In my commercial Kaidan setting PC Death and Reincarnation is the crux of all things. Those who die in Kaidan cannot be raised, nor resurrected, but are always reincarnated - but not as per Core rules. In Kaidan reincarnation is both twisted and unique, requiring each PC to maintain a karma score. At PC Death you roll a d20, add this to your karma score which determines whom you will come back as, how much of your previous life you are aware of, what skills and equipment you have now.
For a party finding your recently lost and reincarnated companion might be a small adventure in itself. Since Kaidan uses a heavy handed social caste system, the reincarnated PC could have migrated to a different social caste. Even going from a farmer to a samurai. (Kaidan is a Japan inspired horror setting for Pathfinder).
In Kaidan you can't not reincarnate, as its hard-wired into the system, however, because of this you can't really permanently die. (Note: you can be sentenced to Hell and become an NPC, you could come back as an infant and are an NPC, but only 1% chance of that, or you could become a malicious yurei spirit (Japanese ghost) and be an NPC, or a PC with the appropriate yurei ghost template.
PC Death and reincarnation is at the heart of the horror of Kaidan. Its actually more twisted than what's described above, but you get the gist of it.
The 'not being fair with different penalties' applied to different players is definitely wrong.
Otherwise whatever pre-agreed or pre-known penalties for PC Death is fine as long as everyone is treated equally and all are aware of it.
In my commercial Kaidan setting PC Death and Reincarnation is the crux of all things. Those who die in Kaidan cannot be raised, nor resurrected, but are always reincarnated - but not as per Core rules. In Kaidan reincarnation is both twisted and unique, requiring each PC to maintain a karma score. At PC Death you roll a d20, add this to your karma score which determines whom you will come back as, how much of your previous life you are aware of, what skills and equipment you have now.
For a party finding your recently lost and reincarnated companion might be a small adventure in itself. Since Kaidan uses a heavy handed social caste system, the reincarnated PC could have migrated to a different social caste. Even going from a farmer to a samurai. (Kaidan is a Japan inspired horror setting for Pathfinder).
In Kaidan you can't not reincarnate, as its hard-wired into the system, however, because of this you can't really permanently die. (Note: you can be sentenced to Hell and become an NPC, you could come back as an infant and are an NPC, but only 1% chance of that, or you could become a malicious yurei spirit (Japanese ghost) and be an NPC, or a PC with the appropriate yurei ghost template.
PC Death and reincarnation is at the heart of the horror of Kaidan. Its actually more twisted than what's described above, but you get the gist of it.
