D&D 5E Can the Bard out-Ranger a Ranger?

It's widely regarded that the Ranger is lackluster. It's also regarded, and somewhat the point, of the Bard to be able to slide into almost any role in the game, and do it effectively.

So, can a Bard out-Ranger a Ranger?

Valor Bard
Expertise
Can steal Ranger spells and use them sooner
Full spellcasting
Can steal spells on ANY list to compliment the role

So my question is... What would this look like? The general progression, I mean.

Dex and Charisma
Longbow or Hand Crossbow
Sharpshooter and/or Crossbow Expert
Expertise in Stealth and Perception
What else? What spells would be targeted for this?

Depends on what you mean by "ranger".

You get a few spell sooner. And if you steal ranger spells, you arn't stealing other spells.
You don't get the extra d8 damage or archery style. Which adds a good bit of damage.
You are more spell dependent. While you have more slots, you can also run out.
You need Cha instead of Wis.
You have smaller hit die.


That said, yes, you can make a good "ranger" bard.

Right, you'd have to take Fighter 1 for Archery, and at that point you should stick around for Action Surge.

That means Magical Secrets gets pushed off two levels, going from 10 to 12...

Still absolutely possible, and IMO something to absolutely consider when making a "Ranger" character, but not quite as good as I had envisioned.

Fes absolutely. This is actually a concept ive had for a while. The best path ive found is to go lvl 1 fighter and dip one into warlock arund 5 for the short rest slot and hex(waiting til 10 for it is soo long).

What you gain;
+Full casning, more spell slots better selection.
+Swift quiver and conjure volley at 12 instead of 17.
+A good use for your bonus action.
+Some great party buff options like song of rest.
+Reliance on cha opens up different skills and inspiring leader.

What you lose;
-Early access to hunters mark.
-Exclusive spells like lightning arrow, hail of thorns, ensnaring strike, conjure barrage.
-the hunter path bonuses, horde breaker, colossus slayer, volley, multiattack defense.
-all the naturey stuff, extra languages favored terrain.

It's definitely a trade-off and both are viable but you get those sweet lvl 5 spells so much sooner.

As an alternative one could go with crossbow expert and a lore bard build to help with more attacks and secrets. This would be better suited to support since you lack some key damage dealing abilities but you will still be frighteningly painful if left alone. With a high level cast oy elemental weapon you can easily outdamage most people.

Ps. if youre looking to iwprove a normal ranger build try a level in war cleric around 6. Divine favor is actually better than hunter's mark esp later with volley and getting a few bonus action attacks with your longbow is awesome. Plus you get a boost in spell slots and some cantrips!

Well, also factor in spells levels 6-9. Ranger stops at 5, obviously. While most spells of those levels don't do much for altering what you already do, like Swift Quiver, they insead allow access to alternative avenues ; Forcecage, for example, locks away an enemy for an hour.

I'm curious about finding synergy between other spell lists and this "Ranger" concept. Not all Paladin Smite spells require a melee weapon, for example.

Now, magical secrets only allows two stolen spells at level 10... This totally works, but has to be done in a narrower, more specialized scope of whatever you'd want.

At that point, being "better" than the standard Ranger is subjective.

Pretty much what has already been said, you would miss on Fighting Style and extra DPR than a normal ranger. Also, Hunter's Mark is more important than many would judge, and defensively you wouldn't compare (due to the Ranger's Defensive Tactics and bigger hit die). But it's a good "flutist of the woods" concept.

Horde Breaker alone is worth taking at least 3 into Ranger if you want to use a bow. It's why a Ranger dip is mandatory for the powerbuild archer classes.

The Fighter can out-ranger the Ranger. It isn't hard.

Yunru said:

The Fighter can out-ranger the Ranger. It isn't hard.

Click to expand...

When it comes to combat, yes, but when it comes to exploration, the fighter would suck hard. Unless they're a Scout.

Nah, the Fighter out-rangers the Ranger so badly in combat it can safely multiclass a whole 9 levels for exploration.