D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

Personally I think they oversimplified weapon design and thus made their design space far too narrow, I see this in several places in the game.

Wait, what "sheer number of rapiers in 5e"? I don't think one character in any of our parties has used a rapier in 5e.

Now 3e was a different matter. If it wasn't spiked chains, it was dual-keen-rapier-frenzy-barbarians with, what was it, 15-20 crit range?

Saelorn said:

That's part of the problem. Even if Strength had more going for it, though, it would still be ridiculous to use a puny rapier against a heavily-armored dragon or a death knight. The sword which people associate with that name is a weapon suited for dueling or civilian use, rather than the battlefield.

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If your issue with how something D&D works can be summed up as "This wouldn't happen in real life!" I'll remind you that you are talking about fighting a dragon, something that also wouldn't happen in real life.

No, I hate the silly idea that you should be allowed to add your Dex bonus to melee attacks.

shidaku said:

If your issue with how something D&D works can be summed up as "This wouldn't happen in real life!" I'll remind you that you are talking about fighting a dragon, something that also wouldn't happen in real life.

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In that case, I will remind you that this is still Like Reality Unless Noted. Elves and dragons and magic can work however you want, because they aren't real and we have nothing to compare them against. A twelve-foot elf is exactly as realistic as a one-inch elf, and a dragon made of iron is exactly as realistic as one made out of leather.

We know what a rapier is, though, and we can guess what should happen when someone tries to stab that through a steel plate. If the in-game outcome of that action doesn't match our expectation, then it causes cognitive dissonance, in a manner which has no corollary amongst things which are purely imaginary.

Wait . . . That third option doesn't say paté.

How do I change my vote?

Warpiglet said:

I hate the image of a rapier in the hand of Conan...or Elric...or King Arthur...or Aragon or...

They suck. There. I said it.

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Me too! But I also hate the thought of DnD without D'artagnon, Robin Hood, and Inigo Montoya.

And heck, since there are so few weapons in 5e, and we're meant to use existing weapons to model missing weapons, rapier is what I use for any one handed, not too blade heavy, longer than a sidesword or classic shortsword, sword. As long as it can stab, and isn't *made for* two-handing, and isn't blade heavy (ie, it doesn't balance toward the end for extra swinging momentum, but instead balances closer to your hand, for fast movement from the wrist), it's a rapier or shortsword, depending on length of blade.

But that is just for me, and I do that because the weapons in 5e don't make sense, in general.
Viking swords, "leaf-blade" elf swords,

ccs said:

No, I hate the silly idea that you should be allowed to add your Dex bonus to melee attacks.

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It's no more silly than AC, HP, the stats themselves, adding muscle power to accuracy, the way speed works, most of the skills, turn based combat, healing, death saves, levels, or the rules for weapons.

Hussar said:

Meh, prior to 3e, that was called a Longsword. Unless you were using a two handed sword, there was no reason to ever not use a longsword. I mean, people are talking about the weapon vs armor table. Let's take a look shall we, just to refresh memory:

So, a mace, vs AC 2 is +3 better than a longsword. And +2 vs AC 3. How often are you using full plate or plate mail armored foes? Virtually nothing in the game actually had AC's in that range. AND, virtually all magic weapons were longswords. Certainly all the best ones were. This myth that there was this magic time in the past where players chose a bunch of different weapons is just that, a myth. In AD&D, you used a longsword, full stop. There was just no reason not to use it. It was head and shoulders better than anything else.

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1e creatures with AC.3 or better in the MM:
Aerial Servant
Anhkheg (main body)
Ant, giant
Beetle, giant - boring
Beetle, giant - rhinoceros
Beetle, giant - stag
Beetle, giant - water
Beholder(main body)
Brownie
Bulette (main body)
Carrion Crawler (main body)
Chimera (dragon head if memory serves)
Crab, giant
Demons, Devils, Demon/Devil Lords - almost all were well into negatives, a few at AC.0, so way better than a mere AC.3
Dinosaurs: Ankylosaurus, Archelon Ischyras, Monoclonius, Paleoscincus, Pentaceratops, Stegosarus, Styracosarus, Triceratops
Dragons - ALL
Dragonne (main body if memory serves)
Dragon Turtle
Efreeti
Elementals - Air/Earth/Fire/Water
Ettin
Gar, giant
Ghost (if you weren't ethereal)
Giants: Cloud/Fire/Stone/Storm
Golem, Iron
Gorgon
Griffin
Groaning spirit (AKA: Banshee)
Imp
Invisible stalker
Ki-Rin
Lamia
Lich
Lizard, fire
Werebear
Weretiger
Men - were listed as: ** - could be anything. Depended upon how the DM armed them
Morkoth
Mummy
Naga, guardian
Neo-Otyugh
Ogre (chieftan)
Otyugh
Piercers (all sizes)
Pseudo-Dragon
Quasit
Rakshasa
Remorhaz (head & main body if I recall)
Roper
Rust Monster
Sahuagin (baron/noble, king, prince)
Salamander (forget wich part)
Scorpion, giant
Sea Lion (forget wich part)
Shambling mound
Snake, giant - amphisbaena
Spectre
Sphinxes - ALL varieties
Squid, giant (main body)
Tick, giant
Titans - all sizes
Trapper
Treant - all sizes
Triton leaders (AC.4 or better)
Turtle, giant - sea & snapper
Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Vampire
Will-o-wisp
Wyvern
Xorn

Your right, virtually nothing in the game had AC.3 or better. And certainly nothing commonly encountered....
Would you like me to compile you a list of AC.3 or better foes from MM2 & the Fiend Folio?

As for never using anything but a Longsword? Speed factor - short swords (and daggers) were faster & faily common as magic items. Class restrictions - not everyone could use longswords....

doctorbadwolf said:

It's no more silly than AC, HP, the stats themselves, adding muscle power to accuracy, the way speed works, most of the skills, turn based combat, healing, death saves, levels, or the rules for weapons.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree.