D&D 5E Building a better Monk

Gnomosapien · Jul 4, 2017

outsider said:
Two weapon fighting thus has no use on a monk...
Mobile helps as it allows you to disengage without using your bonus action.

Many players get confused about the duel weilder feature and often forget it allows the use of non light weapons & gives +1AC. In fact duel weilder allows a lvl1 monk (with right race) to increase damage output to 3xd8 at lower levels.

Mobile does not allow monks to disengage rather it prevents attacks of opportunities against targets you struck with melee attacks that round. You basically take mobile for the extra 10ft but up until lvl4 that's not going to help much with survivability as most npc's can easily bridge the 25 feet at most you will distance yourself from them.

Misinformation and lack of feature comprehension are part of the reason players keep failing the monk class. A common theme for campaign sucess that many find works is to take them down fast (thus the duel weilder/martial arts at lvl1).

Yunru · Jul 4, 2017

Gnomosapien said:
Many players get confused about the two weapon fighting feature and often forget it allows the use of non light weapons. In fact two weapon fighting allows a lvl1 monk (with right race) to increase damage out put to 3xd8 at lower levels.

Mobile does not allow monks to disengage rather it prevents attacks of opportunities against targets you struck with melee attacks that round. Mobile also does not stack with monks ki abilities, thus the reason why many players who play monks well do not take it.

Misinformation and lack of feature comprehension are part of the reason players keep failing the monk class. Please check facts before posting.

Since you mention fact checking, it behooves you to back up that statement.

Which you will be unable to, because it is wrong.
Firstly, Mobile prevents attacks of opportunity from any foe you attack, hit or miss.
Secondly, it stacks perfectly with Ki abilities, because Ki points are a limited resource. Not having to spend Ki points or you bonus action to break away from an opponent is of immense benefit to a Monk, even more so to one who follows the Way of the Open Hand, as they can inveet those resources elsewhere.

So yes, please check your facts before posting.

Gnomosapien · Jul 4, 2017

You miss quoted me

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Yunru · Jul 4, 2017

Gnomosapien said:
You miss quoted me

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Lies. The quote button quotes you exactly as you post. The fact that you edit in further information after you've been quoted does not make it a misquote.

Edit: Regarding Dual Wielder, it is a nice enough feat for the +1 AC, but using for Two Weapon Fighting is a trap.

At levels 1 to 4, with two weapon fighting you can do 2d8+mod. With martial arts, you do 1d8+1d4+2*mod.
So unless you're running a +1 mod or lower, you're always better of using Martial Arts (even at +1 you're even on average).

Edit 2: Regarding the enemy still being able to reach you (which is only applicable at low levels): Congratulations, you just made the enemy grant an Opportunity Attack to you Melee buddies.

Gnomosapien · Jul 4, 2017

Yunru said:
Since you mention fact checking, it behooves you to back up that statement.

Which you will be unable to, because it is wrong.
Firstly, Mobile prevents attacks of opportunity from any foe you attack, hit or miss.
Secondly, it stacks perfectly with Ki abilities, because Ki points are a limited resource. Not having to spend Ki points or you bonus action to break away from an opponent is of immense benefit to a Monk, even more so to one who follows the Way of the Open Hand, as they can inveet those resources elsewhere.

So yes, please check your facts before posting.

That was very clever however you are too quick to respond I had already changed my post realizing my ommission of the word 'at' and that you had named the duel weilder feat incorrectly as "two weapon fighting".
Furthermore if you were not so quick to take offence at the fact checking statement which I also tactfully withdrew before you so lamentably copied and pasted, you would have realised that my original post was to help lower lvl monks 1-4 survive.

Mobile is great above those levels but it simply doesn't do enough from levels 1-4 as even the fastest races with mobile cannot put enough distance between themselves and the npc's.

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Yunru · Jul 4, 2017

Gnomosapien said:
That was very clever however you are too quick to respond I had already changed my post realizing my ommission of the word 'at' and that you had named the duel weilder feat incorrectly as "two weapon fighting".
Furthermore if you were not so quick to take offence at the fact checking statement which I also tactfully withdrew before you so lamentably copied and pasted, you would have realised that my original post was to help lower lvl monks 1-4 survive.

Mobile is great above those levels but it simply doesn't do enough from levels 1-4 as even the fastest races with mobile cannot put enough distance between themselves and the npc's.

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Sure they can, because if the enemy moves to get against to you again, your melee buddies pummel him with the OAs he just granted.

Level 1-4 is where you're going to want Mobile the most. It's when you are at your most squishy, with the least Ki to spend on Disengaging. As above, even being 20 feet away makes a massive impact.

outsider · Jul 4, 2017

Gnomosapien said:
Many players get confused about the two weapon fighting feature and often forget it allows the use of non light weapons. In fact two weapon fighting allows a lvl1 monk (with right race) to increase damage out put to 3xd8 at lower levels.

Mobile does not allow monks to disengage rather it prevents attacks of opportunities against targets you struck with melee attacks that round. You basically take mobile for the extra 10ft but up until lvl4 that's not going to help much with survivability as most npc's can easily bridge the 25 feet at most you will distance yourself from them.

Misinformation and lack of feature comprehension are part of the reason players keep failing the monk class. Common themes for campaign sucess are take them down fast (thus the two weapon/martial arts at lvl1).

Disengage makes it so your movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks for the rest of the round, at the cost of your bonus action. Mobile makes it so you don't provoke opportunity attacks from enemies you attack for the rest of the round, with no action cost. They are fulfilling the same goal in slightly different ways. You will still use Disengage at times even if you have Mobile, but Mobile will do the trick alot of the time.

Two weapon fighting also costs your bonus action. So does the extra attack from Martial Arts. You can't combine them to get two extra attacks.

Martial arts requires you to only be wielding monk weapons. You can't use a monk weapon in one hand and a non monk weapon in the other. There are no one handed monk weapons that do 1d8 damage.

The best you can do with Two weapon fighting on a level 1 monk is upgrade your attack routine from 1d6/1d4 to 1d6/1d6. By level 5, your unarmed attack is doing 1d6 anyways, making this moot. Alternatively you could use a quarterstaff or greatclub and do 1d8/1d4, which is close to the same thing.

Gnomosapien · Jul 4, 2017

Yunru said:
Lies. The quote button quotes you exactly as you post. The fact that you edit in further information after you've been quoted does not make it a misquote.

Edit: Regarding Dual Wielder, it is a nice enough feat for the +1 AC, but using for Two Weapon Fighting is a trap.

At levels 1 to 4, with two weapon fighting you can do 2d8+mod. With martial arts, you do 1d8+1d4+2*mod.
So unless you're running a +1 mod or lower, you're always better of using Martial Arts (even at +1 you're even on average).

Edit 2: Regarding the enemy still being able to reach you (which is only applicable at low levels): Congratulations, you just made the enemy grant an Opportunity Attack to you Melee buddies.

People like you are the reason new people don't want to come on these forums or want to play d&d. Your goal to sound smart at my expense makes me feel awful. I quit and goodluck with friends and relationships irl. You're the one telling lies, to yourself.

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outsider · Jul 4, 2017

Gnomosapien said:
People like you are the reason new people don't want to come on these forums or want to play d&d. Your goal to sound smart at my expense makes me feel awful.

Dude, I'm not trying to sound smart at your expense. Just because I correct you on something, doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than you or that you should feel dumb for misunderstanding. D&D is a complicated game. All I'm saying is that you are incorrect about Dual Wield combining with Martial Arts.

Gnomosapien · Jul 4, 2017

outsider said:
Dude, I'm not trying to sound smart at your expense. Just because I correct you on something, doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than you or that you should feel dumb for misunderstanding. D&D is a complicated game. All I'm saying is that you are incorrect about Dual Wield combining with Martial Arts.

Your lucky I had to log back in to turn off your awful posts that plauged my email. Many dm's allow some monk weapons to be d8 such as the naginata & dragon staff. Also the Kusarigama can be given a reach or special ranged grapple effect. That aside there is the unmentioned Kanabo (on par with a great maul) that could be classed as a monk weapon. You don't get ki until lvl3 mobile wont be a viable option until lvl4. I am new and now I am gone forever.

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