D&D 5E How Defeat this Coffelock Villain?

[FrogReaver]

If they're a PC, maybe. But this is the DM's pet arch-villain built using a ridiculous rules exploit. For all we know, it's got a 20 in every stat.

Unless the OP claims the DM did something like that there's no need to speculate all the extras he may have given the villain.

 

[Slit518]

Mirror Image/Blur combo on high armor class characters.

If there is a druid, it could transform into some type of flying animal out of the villains sight, and fly to the villain, land on it, and morph back into druid form, or perhaps a gorilla and grab the villain.

You guys are pretty high level, can any of you craft a golem?

 

[Saeviomagy]

It sounds like you're all a bit hazy on the rules, which is leading to the DM being a bit of a cheat.

Lets start at the beginning:

The villain used his simulacrum to deceive us, used Sutble Metamagic + Enemies Abound secretly.
The barbarian's attack defeats instantly the Evocation Wizard (Alread damaged). Meanwhile the Simulacrum has gone far.

Enemies abound doesn't actually force you to attack anyone. It just means that when you do attack, you must choose a random target. Now maybe what happened is the Simulacrum, the evoker and the barbarian were all standing right next to each other (which seems odd), and then the simulacrum provoked an AOO, at which point the barbarian would be forced to take it, and forced to roll to see who he attacked.

Additionally, the spell should have started combat (albeit with you guys being surprised). The barbarian gets advantage on his initiative check, and can act normally on his first action as long as he rages (ie - he wouldn't act surprised). If he's a berserker, he would then be immune to enemies abound, since he's immune to fear while raging.

Then appeared the Villain and his Simulacrum flying (Free Divine Soul wings) a long distance.
The Villain's attack was devasting:
Distant Metamagic + Empower Metamagic + Spellsniper feat + Repeling Eldrich Blast (480 feet, Repelling 10 feet each hit, WTF) and Quicken Spiritual Weapon

While the Simulacrum was using Distant Metamagic + Earth Bind (600 feet range, Wait what?) + Quicken Empowered Repelling Eldrich Blast.

You can't cast a bonus action spell and any other spell in a round, and you can't combine metamagic except for empower, so this round is illegal.

Also I assume the spiritual weapon did nothing, since it's way, way, way out of range of you and nobody has bonus actions to make it reposition.

While I was Earth Binded, Quicken Empower Magic Missale + Repelling Eldrich Blast was devasting against me.

Spell sniper doesn't work for magic missile, so he's had to close in for this. Earth bind only stops you from flying, and does not restrain you in any other way.

Quicken Death Ward, Heal, Life Transference, Freedom of Moment Silence, Revify and contingency : Revify (The villain's spells avaiable)

I don't know what you mean here. I'm assuming he didn't cast these all in a single round or something.

The Abjuration Wizard casted Fly to help the team (Concentration), but lost concentration check when attacked.

This was kind of his own fault, if he cast fly when the bad guys are up next, and didn't hide after doing so...

I was talking to my DM, he interrupted the session when Abjuration Wizard lost concentration, he is "Earth Binded" and now the Simulacrum will cast Distant Metamagic + Silence. (No Shield against 5th level distant empowered Magic Missales) It's the end.

This is getting quite muddled, but make sure he doesn't try to use earthbind to force you to stay in the silence(all it does is stop you flying), make the silence move to keep on you (it's stationary and only 20ft radius), nor use silence and quickened magic missiles in a single round (that's cheating).

 

[FrogReaver]

A few other tactical observations. If the wizard needs to keep a spell up he can drop prone at the end of his turn after casting it. Him being prone gives ranged attacks against him disadvantage.

 

[FrogReaver]

It sounds like you're all a bit hazy on the rules, which is leading to the DM being a bit of a cheat.

Lets start at the beginning:


Enemies abound doesn't actually force you to attack anyone. It just means that when you do attack, you must choose a random target. Now maybe what happened is the Simulacrum, the evoker and the barbarian were all standing right next to each other (which seems odd), and then the simulacrum provoked an AOO, at which point the barbarian would be forced to take it, and forced to roll to see who he attacked.

Additionally, the spell should have started combat (albeit with you guys being surprised). The barbarian gets advantage on his initiative check, and can act normally on his first action as long as he rages (ie - he wouldn't act surprised). If he's a berserker, he would then be immune to enemies abound, since he's immune to fear while raging.

You can't cast a bonus action spell and any other spell in a round, and you can't combine metamagic except for empower, so this round is illegal.

Also I assume the spiritual weapon did nothing, since it's way, way, way out of range of you and nobody has bonus actions to make it reposition.

Spell sniper doesn't work for magic missile, so he's had to close in for this. Earth bind only stops you from flying, and does not restrain you in any other way.

I don't know what you mean here. I'm assuming he didn't cast these all in a single round or something.

This was kind of his own fault, if he cast fly when the bad guys are up next, and didn't hide after doing so...

This is getting quite muddled, but make sure he doesn't try to use earthbind to force you to stay in the silence(all it does is stop you flying), make the silence move to keep on you (it's stationary and only 20ft radius), nor use silence and quickened magic missiles in a single round (that's cheating).

I agree with most of this. You are right about enemies abound except the subtle spell meant no one knew it had been cast. Without that knowledge the barbarian could easily have placed himself in a bad position to potentially hit his own wizard instead of his intended target.

I would also rule that being immune to fear would have ended the condition but the spell doesn't explicitly say that so there is some wiggle room. There is also no indication the barbarian raged at all here. So this may be a moot point regardless.

You can cast a bonus action spell and an action cantrip. Spiritual weapon is a bonus action (it didn't even need to be quickened) and eldritch blast is an action cantrip. That round was legal. But you have a very valid point about spiritual weapon being out of range. It wouldn't get anywhere near the PC's with the Villain being 480ft away.

Very good points about magic missle and earthbind.

I think he is just listing what spells the villain can cast to try and be helpful to us.

I think the bigger issue is that there's also a simularacon that can basically do the same stuff as the primary caster and gives him essentially an extra action each round.

Other thoughts. If the bard can get close to them then maybe a suggestion could force the sorcerer to leave.

The party needs to back off and regroup. The range is the biggest issue. Find a way to mitigate that and it won't be an impossible fight when they engage the sorcerer again.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I agree with most of this. You are right about enemies abound except the subtle spell meant no one knew it had been cast. Without that knowledge the barbarian could easily have placed himself in a bad position to potentially hit his own wizard instead of his intended target.

Well... maybe. Strictly speaking, when the wizard said "I cast spell X", initiative gets rolled, with the PCs surprised. If he beats the enemy wizard on initiative, the barbarian doesn't know what's happening precisely, just that his instincts are going off. You don't just get a free attack by being the first to say "I attack", even if you append "...sneakily" to it.

My guess (from the descriptions given) is that the DM just put every PC and the simulacrum in a 5 foot huddle in the open, which is pretty cheesy.

I would also rule that being immune to fear would have ended the condition but the spell doesn't explicitly say that so there is some wiggle room. There is also no indication the barbarian raged at all here. So this may be a moot point regardless.

Sure, lots of vagaries. We also don't even know if he's the right type of barbarian (a totem barbarian wouldn't get anything for instance). I was just filling out the scenario in a way that wasn't so cut and dried.

You can cast a bonus action spell and an action cantrip. Spiritual weapon is a bonus action (it didn't even need to be quickened) and eldritch blast is an action cantrip. That round was legal. But you have a very valid point about spiritual weapon being out of range. It wouldn't get anywhere near the PC's with the Villain being 480ft away.

The invalid bit is the:
"While the Simulacrum was using Distant Metamagic + Earth Bind (600 feet range, Wait what?) + Quicken Empowered Repelling Eldrich Blast."

That's a full powered spell + a quickened cantrip, and you can't swap the quicken to the full spell because you're already using metamagic on it.

Very good points about magic missle and earthbind.

I think he is just listing what spells the villain can cast to try and be helpful to us.

I think the bigger issue is that there's also a simularacon that can basically do the same stuff as the primary caster and gives him essentially an extra action each round.

Other thoughts. If the bard can get close to them then maybe a suggestion could force the sorcerer to leave.

The party needs to back off and regroup. The range is the biggest issue. Find a way to mitigate that and it won't be an impossible fight when they engage the sorcerer again.

Agreed. Fundamentally the 'coffeelock' thing isn't really changing the encounter, because so far their foe isn't actually digging deep on resources. The problem is that you're facing a mobile pair of foes alpha striking on an apparently featureless plain while your group are all bunched up within 5' of each other, and you have zero defenses.

It's not unwinnable, but standing about in the open concentrating on spells isn't going to cut it.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well... maybe. Strictly speaking, when the wizard said "I cast spell X", initiative gets rolled, with the PCs surprised. If he beats the enemy wizard on initiative, the barbarian doesn't know what's happening precisely, just that his instincts are going off. You don't just get a free attack by being the first to say "I attack", even if you append "...sneakily" to it.

I agree about attacks. I disagree with non-damage causing spells. They can be cast out of combat without rolling for initiative. Otherwise players attempting to prebuff would start a combat. Otherwise casting friends or charm person would start a combat. There is a lot of discretion about when initiative gets called for.

My guess (from the descriptions given) is that the DM just put every PC and the simulacrum in a 5 foot huddle in the open, which is pretty cheesy.

Sure, lots of vagaries. We also don't even know if he's the right type of barbarian (a totem barbarian wouldn't get anything for instance). I was just filling out the scenario in a way that wasn't so cut and dried.

The invalid bit is the:
"While the Simulacrum was using Distant Metamagic + Earth Bind (600 feet range, Wait what?) + Quicken Empowered Repelling Eldrich Blast."

That's a full powered spell + a quickened cantrip, and you can't swap the quicken to the full spell because you're already using metamagic on it.

missed that part. I agree there.

Agreed. Fundamentally the 'coffeelock' thing isn't really changing the encounter, because so far their foe isn't actually digging deep on resources. The problem is that you're facing a mobile pair of foes alpha striking on an apparently featureless plain while your group are all bunched up within 5' of each other, and you have zero defenses.

yep. As I think everyone has agreed, the players need to retreat at this point and set up an encounter with some more favorable conditions.

It's not unwinnable, but standing about in the open concentrating on spells isn't going to cut it.

Well duh. The idea is to either use invisiblity to let the group retreat or use invisibility to let the bard get close to the soercerer for a chance at suggesting for him to leave. In the later case the wizard laying prone would increase the likelihood of the strategy working.

 

[Phazonfish]

edit: Nevermind, I see what he meant now.

 

[Wulffolk]

Still have no idea what the hell a Coffelock is, and now my brain hurts after skimming through all of this garbage. The simple solution to this is to take a clue and walk away from any game that is run like this.

Note to self: Post another pet peeve to the thread about pet peeves. I hate the mashing together of words to make up new words. For example: Sorcadin, Bladelock, Bardbarian, etc. Well, Bardbarian is not quite as bad, but for consistency's sake it still qualifies as a pet peeve.

Ugh, there goes a chunk of time I will never get back. Good thing that it was on my employer's time, and not when I had more enjoyable things to do.

 

[Phion]

Have you tried simply going through the ethereal plane so he can not interact with your characters until you swoop back in and take away his implements?