Critical Role Critical Role Campaign 3 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Savage Wombat]

Doesn't matter (much) what the rules say - the primary factor is what Marisha wants to do. The secondary factor is what Marisha's d20 wants, of course.

 

[MarkB]

Dropping the spoiler tags since we are a full day past the Youtube release of the latest episode, but for those not caught up, you may not want to read any further.

SPOILERS

Wow, so the party went with Orym, which made a lot of sense. I don't believe for a second that Ashley or Fearne used the result of the coin flip to determine what they were doing. I think they used it to provide cover for what they decided (Ashley to prevent online harassment, Fearne to prevent character harassment). Fearne was just too connected to Orym for her to choose to revivify Laudna. Great commitment to the characters there.

Quite possibly, but I don't think Ashley was faking just how much she didn't want to have to make that decision. In-character Fearne has more of a connection to Orym, but I'm pretty sure Ashley still really hated having to choose between Liam and Marisha.

 

[overgeeked]

This is one of the benefits and drawbacks of story-focused games and characters with either epic backstories or connections to epic characters in their backstories.

To make the death meaningful, it can't be undone easily, hence Matt's house rule about the ritual and roll for any resurrections. It sucks for the player to have to sit out and not play for the duration but the style of game they play is immersive and mostly occurs moment-to-moment. They can hand wave the time spent until resurrection, but they won't. So Marisha gets to watch from the sidelines for a few sessions either way.

Several of the characters have close contact and connections to very powerful people who could easily bring Laudna back. Keyleth with reincarnation or Keyleth calling in Pike for a raise dead. This raises a lot of questions, like why didn't Keyleth do that when Orym's family was killed. Maybe that's a undeveloped plot point or it was just glossed over. Liam clearly pushed for this solution, but Matt seemed unsure or hesitant. Likely not wanting the higher-level NPC to simply snap their fingers and make it better or make it work. Which we saw a bit of in C2 with Essek being their taxi service for a few levels.

Lord Eshteross' connections in Jrusar. Any sympathetic 9th-level cleric would do. But Matt will likely resist that. As he initially did with the first message to Eshteross. Though he immediately softened that in the second message.

Trouble is there's no real way to maintain a credible world that includes these powerful higher-level NPCs that simply refuse to help their lower-level PC allies. "I'm busy" only goes so far.

Or the group gains two more levels and does it themselves...in however many dozen more episodes that will take. Meanwhile Marisha either sits out or plays an alt.

 

[BRayne]

Keyleth could also just be a source for a 9th level cleric (Vesper De Rolo perhaps?) or agree to do the resurrection after the party solve a problem of hers. Which the residuum stuff could easily be used as a plot hook there, and if they recover a significant amount it could cover the material costs.

 

[Mort]

This is one of the benefits and drawbacks of story-focused games and characters with either epic backstories or connections to epic characters in their backstories.

To make the death meaningful, it can't be undone easily, hence Matt's house rule about the ritual and roll for any resurrections. It sucks for the player to have to sit out and not play for the duration but the style of game they play is immersive and mostly occurs moment-to-moment. They can hand wave the time spent until resurrection, but they won't. So Marisha gets to watch from the sidelines for a few sessions either way.

Several of the characters have close contact and connections to very powerful people who could easily bring Laudna back. Keyleth with reincarnation or Keyleth calling in Pike for a raise dead. This raises a lot of questions, like why didn't Keyleth do that when Orym's family was killed. Maybe that's a undeveloped plot point or it was just glossed over. Liam clearly pushed for this solution, but Matt seemed unsure or hesitant. Likely not wanting the higher-level NPC to simply snap their fingers and make it better or make it work. Which we saw a bit of in C2 with Essek being their taxi service for a few levels.

Lord Eshteross' connections in Jrusar. Any sympathetic 9th-level cleric would do. But Matt will likely resist that. As he initially did with the first message to Eshteross. Though he immediately softened that in the second message.

Trouble is there's no real way to maintain a credible world that includes these powerful higher-level NPCs that simply refuse to help their lower-level PC allies. "I'm busy" only goes so far.

Or the group gains two more levels and does it themselves...in however many dozen more episodes that will take. Meanwhile Marisha either sits out or plays an alt.

You'd think Marisha (and Matt) would welcome the opportunity to use Reincarnate.

It would provide some funky RP opportunities (especially with whatever baggage Matt chooses to inject into it, because you know he would). And it's just not something you see very often, great opportunity to trot it out!

Plus it drives home that having high powered friends comes with some benefits - but also serious responsibilities and baggage.

 

[MarkB]

To make the death meaningful, it can't be undone easily, hence Matt's house rule about the ritual and roll for any resurrections.

Several of the characters have close contact and connections to very powerful people who could easily bring Laudna back. Keyleth with reincarnation or Keyleth calling in Pike for a raise dead. This raises a lot of questions, like why didn't Keyleth do that when Orym's family was killed.

Your first point answers the second. Resurrection is both rare and hard to accomplish in this world. Maybe Keyleth tried to draw them back but they didn't answer, or maybe it was determined before making the attempt that they'd moved on and should be allowed to rest.

You'd think Marisha (and Matt) would welcome the opportunity to use Reincarnate.

It would provide some funky RP opportunities (especially with whatever baggage Matt chooses to inject into it, because you know he would). And it's just not something you see very often, great opportunity to trot it out!

Plus it drives home that having high powered friends comes with some benefits - but also serious responsibilities and baggage.

Keyleth isn't really a friend, though, just a passing acquaintance. Orym's made it clear that he wasn't that close to her. I really doubt that Keyleth spends her time reincarnating every friend-of-a-friend who dies in battle.

Most importantly, though, can you imagine how that would come across? Bringing in Marisha's old character to save her new one, in one of those hugely-emotional ceremonies? That would be the weirdest case of nepotism/self-interest imaginable.

 

[OB1]

And there are two reasons why reincarnate or raise dead might not even work. The first is of course Matt's house rules, which the cast has been lucky with so far, but even if all three skill checks to help the ritual succeed, allows for a 20% chance that it will fail.

The second is that Laudna's soul may not be available to come back. She's been 'living' without one for 30 years, so a reincarnate or raise dead might not even work (due to the 10 day limit). True resurrection might, but would that bring back the current Laudna or the version who was killed? Not to mention that 25K GP cost might be too much for even Keylth to cover for friends.

So I think they will try to bring her back, but will not be successful for one of those two reasons. If they do, that would be great as well. Laudna is (was) my favorite character this season, so I won't be complaining if it works out to bring her back!

 

[Mort]

Your first point answers the second. Resurrection is both rare and hard to accomplish in this world. Maybe Keyleth tried to draw them back but they didn't answer, or maybe it was determined before making the attempt that they'd moved on and should be allowed to rest.


Keyleth isn't really a friend, though, just a passing acquaintance. Orym's made it clear that he wasn't that close to her. I really doubt that Keyleth spends her time reincarnating every friend-of-a-friend who dies in battle.

Most importantly, though, can you imagine how that would come across? Bringing in Marisha's old character to save her new one, in one of those hugely-emotional ceremonies? That would be the weirdest case of nepotism/self-interest imaginable.

Well no. But don't make the connection if you aren't prepared to pull the string.

And again, how often has anyone seen Reincarnation get used? I've been gaming for almost 40 years and I've seen it once (that I can recall). It's just not something that gets trotted out often at all (Raise dead sure, even the occasional resurrection, but IME Reincarnate is REALLY rare). Heck was it used, even once in the first CR campaign? If your in a position to do so (especially considering CR lives for huge RP and gaming moments like this) why not do it.

I suspect they won't, but it would be interesting to see.

 

[MarkB]

Well no. But don't make the connection if you aren't prepared to pull the string.

And again, how often has anyone seen Reincarnation get used? I've been gaming for almost 40 years and I've seen it once (that I can recall). It's just not something that gets trotted out often at all (Raise dead sure, even the occasional resurrection, but IME Reincarnate is REALLY rare). Heck was it used, even once in the first CR campaign? If your in a position to do so (especially considering CR lives for huge RP and gaming moments like this) why not do it.

I suspect they won't, but it would be interesting to see.

I agree in general with the sentiment, but it just wouldn't work at all with Laudna as a character. Her whole deal is being the half-dead remnant of someone who was a pawn in one of the biggest guilt-trips in the first campaign, and her connection to Delilah seems as much physical as spiritual. Out of any of the current team with the possible exception of FCG, dropping that character back into play in the newly-built body of some random gnome or tiefling or tabaxi would rob them of most of what makes them unique.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Out of any of the current team with the possible exception of FCG, dropping that character back into play in the newly-built body of some random gnome or tiefling or tabaxi would rob them of most of what makes them unique.

Mmm, maybe. As long as she's a warlock Delilah will be there spiritually, and I think that counts for most of the haunting backstory. She might come back as a tabaxi revenant rather than a human one. Not sure how that would work, but it's a possibility. Or her face would be half-human, Deliah's.

But, yes, the player would have to think about how she wants to present herself. It could be interesting.