[Full - Waiting for complete characters] Loex’edar: The Dragon War

[Keia]

Just saw this game. I'd be honored if I were on an alternate list if sometihng comes available.

Keia

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Does this mean I get to bump Luminous' nat armor from +8 to +13? Yay!

Cool! That'd mean Flitterdust goes from +4 to +7 in the Nat armor category. Why do I have a feeling this is a ripple effect going on here ...

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

On the class skills issue....

Here it was mentioned that we probably picked whatever class skills we wanted... is that correct? If not, I need to redo class skills.

An official ruling would be nice, as I did end up noting the dragon class skills listing in the MM.

Skills: All dragons have skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier, minimum 1) x (Hit Dice + 3). Most dragons purchase the following skills at the maximum ranks possible: Listen, Search, and Spot. The remaining skill points are generally spent on Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device at a cost of 1 skill point per rank. All these skills are considered class skills for dragons. (Each dragon has other class skills as well, as noted in the variety descriptions.)

I'd also understood that any skills that a monster is shown as having ranks in (in thier MM writeup) are class skills for that creature.

 

[Wrahn]

On the class skills issue....

Here it was mentioned that we probably picked whatever class skills we wanted... is that correct? If not, I need to redo class skills.

An official ruling would be nice, as I did end up noting the dragon class skills listing in the MM.



I'd also understood that any skills that a monster is shown as having ranks in (in thier MM writeup) are class skills for that creature.

I understood the ruling linked above to be for fairy dragons as they are not true dragons and thus the skill rules for true dragons don't apply to them.

I believe that the rule about class skills being defined by what skills are on the monster listing is from Savage Species, which was not specifically mentioned as a usuable source. I could be wrong of course...

I would guess that the natural armor/hit dice relationship only applies to true dragons as well, since the natural armor of fairy dragons, at 8 hit dice, is already set. (I never noticed the HD -1 = natural armor relationship of dragons before, learn something new every day)

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

In the level breakdowns I've seen for true dragons (Savage Species-style, in the Dragon Mags) the Nat armor bonus isn't always HD-1. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't (if I recall correctly). I hadn't noticed before if it was in the MM or not, but I just checked the SRD and it is. Odd....

The fairy dragon write-up does have a list of skills though. I don't know if that rule's from SS or not... don't really recall where I got that from, and since I'm at work, I can't check my books. I'll take your word for it. It just seems kinda odd that non-True dragons would get a choice of class skills, and True dragons wouldn't, you know? I'll go with whatever the GMs decide, though.

 

[scout989]

Does this mean I get to bump Luminous' nat armor from +8 to +13? Yay!

Whoa, Luminous is a radiant dragon, right? I need to check that out. I'm more trying to say that you can follow the already-established pattern for your dragon type. Thus, if all radiant dragons have a natural armor bonus equal to their racial HD-3 (or something- don't have my books handy), and you have a number of racial HD that does not exactly correspond to an age category, you may get a few extra points of natural armor. But I don't think anyone is going to get more than 1-2 out of it.

Sorry if I was unclear, all- my post was poorly written. I apologize.

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

I am pretty sure that a Radiant dragon is still considered a True Dragon. That's what I based my post on. Unfortunately, I don't have the books with me at work, so I can't check.

I would point out that while the metallics and chromatics from the MM do seem to have HD-1, most of the dragons played here don't have the base number of HD, which the MM dragons do. And from what I've read from the SRD (really wish I could reference my books), when you advance a monster's HD, you increase BAB, saves, feats, and skills. It doesn't mention increasing special abilities (such as nat armor, spell resistance, etc). Dragons have age categories that increase these things, and the other monsters (that I can recall) don't increase special abilities at all.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm sorry if I am anyway. I would just like to explain my reasoning as to why the house rule should be a broad category change instead of just applying to a few. The MM dragons are already more powerful than the non-MM dragons for the pretty much the same CR and ECL, I'd hate to see the gap widen farther.

I'll bow to GM decision of course, but I'd prefer to state my reasons for opposing in the first place.

 

[Wrahn]

Radiant Dragons have a non-standard natural armor bonus because of they get a deflection bonus equal to their age catagory to their armor class.

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

Radiant Dragons have a non-standard natural armor bonus because of they get a deflection bonus equal to their age catagory to their armor class.

Ah, I'd forgotten about that. (Been a long time since that character was written up.) Still, the deflection is only a +2, making a total of +10 to armor, whereas a MM dragon of the same HD would have a +13, and could wear a deflection ring on top of it (where a radiant dragon would have to buy a deflection ring of a higher bonus because deflection bonuses overlap).

I do still stand by my last post about either making it a blanket rule for all dragon types, or not making it a house rule, until a formal decision from the GMs is made one way or another. Either way, I'll play the character according to character concept, it's just slightly disheartening when my 15-year old nephew points out that I could "get lots more bonuses by playing a gold instead of a radiant". What can I say, he's a little powergamer.

 

[scout989]

Okay, I've a couple of things to say. First of all, I hadn't noticed the bit about radiant dragons making up for their lower natural armor with a deflection bonus. However, I do believe that a deflection bonus from racial HD and an enhancement bonus to deflection would stack, much as happens with natural armor (not to mention, they're one of the few available who get a bump to dexterity- which also helps make up the difference). Secondly, a battledragon actually has natural armor= HD. So faerie dragons are the only ones who get screwed under his system, which works for me as they aren't true dragons.

Knowing all that, do you still have a problem with the house-rule, GFA?

Edit: not sure if you were unclear on this, so here's a clarification- a radiant dragon still gets their racial HD-4 for natural armor, on top of the deflection- so you get the same benefit as everyone else