D&D 4E How would you re-envision Spelljammer with 4e?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

How does the star wars rpg handle it? That would be a model to follow I would think.

I am not sure without published adventures, but the core rulebook makes no definite assumptions on that. By RAW, you won't have the money to have a ship.

Personally, I think the Starwars universe requires the characters to have their own ship, because every published main character in book and movies did have access to one.

I don't know much settings which wouldn't require that, either. But I think such a setting might be a good idea! People in the modern world might need a car, but they don't need a plane or a helicopter!

 

[Sitara]

How does the star wars rpg handle it? That would be a model to follow I would think.

It makes the ship into a hook for low-level pc's. that is, kinda how Han Solo won the Falcon from Lando, but had bad blood between them and how he owed Jabba cred's from his smuggling.

Basically on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I would emphasize the Rock of Bral and the Astromundi Cluster as prime locations. Integrate the Elven Imperial Navy with the revised Eladrin, make it clear on exactly what 'Pirates of Gith' really are (are they Githyanki or another subrace), more mystery of the Juna stuff, 'rules of physics' everyone can agree on (or maybe just have different regions of space operate under different rules of physics), make the K'r'r'r as significant as the Illithids, Beholders and Neogi, and do something with the Reigar to divorce them from Ziggy Stardust (or maybe just fold them into the Elven/Eladrin Imperial Navy).

 

[Steely Dan]

This time really emphasize that it should be implemented as a camping setting in its own right, rather than just a taxi service from Krynn to Toril and what not.

 

[Stormtalon]

For one, crib the best parts of Eberron airship mechanics and integrate them into the Spelljamming ships. I also agree with making it a separate setting; it should work within its own logic and not try to impose a metaverse feel on other settings.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

So, 4e has come out. You are working on the WOTC staff incharge of making the campaign guide for the 4e Spelljammer setting. What changes do you make to the setting?

Making it a setting. It was NOT a setting before - it was rules written to be ADDED to existing settings, generally as a means to tie it to OTHER settings.

What do you focus on for the players to do?

Exploration, travel, and providing means of enjoyable GROUP participation in what would likely be frequent ship combat.

How do you change D&D game play?

I don't.

What changes do you make to the story?

As it was not a setting it had no story, aside from references to the Unhuman (Inhuman) War and the ubiquitous presence of the Elven Imperial Navy.

What sort of content do you plan for the campaign guide?

Default races and classes. Common ships. Ship combat. Information on what people DO on a ship (why they need the amount of crewmen that they do). Advice and information on incorporating ships into a game. Maps not of the game world(s) but of the game SPACE - which by rights replaces the game world map (singular) and thus is required to fulfill the same functions. Reallly, except for the highly integral presence of ships it wouldn't be much different from any other campaign guide.

 

[Vrecknidj]

1) Kill the silly

2) Amp the cool

Think Serenity via Fantasy.

Agreed. I enjoyed playing Spelljammer (well, DMing it, I didn't get to play much back then, and my players were all drooling fans), but quite a bit of it doesn't work too well, especially not with post-2e rules. I'd probably re-read all the published material and then set it aside and start over, keeping some themes that really worked well, and discarding everything else.

Dave

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

1) Don't kill the silly. The silly made it fun...folk are forgetting FUN in D&D, as the uber-munchkinization takes over (loved 3rd ed, hated the way folk jsut power-gamed to extremes, but yet ridiculed humour...really felt a distinct lack of humour in 3rd ed)

2) Yes, a single book, allowing Spelljamemr to LINK campaigns, but with Rock of Bral as the "standard" for players to work with/from.

3) Yes again, let it link to the elemental and astral planes.

4) Pirates of Gith *are* Githyanki, allowing them a more prominent role' woudl be good, letting them have Elven Man-O-Wars to fly the Astral. For those not familiar, Pirates of Gith used their astral plane shift ability, to move their entire ship to and from the Astral, but it only works if their ship is organic. Elven ships are organic, so they steal elven ships. Talk about a nasty "cloaking device" as a warship pops out into real space on top of you

5) yet again, yes to a previosu poster's good point! Tactical ship to ship combat needs improved. making the ship a CRREATURE, in terms of how it's handled mechanically, would be a good way: e, for intiiative, AC, attacks etc. just give it stats like a monster.

IMHO, the damage from seige weapons needs upped...ballistas are *really* horribly destructive in RL. A light Ballista, Roiman style, 2 man crew, hits harder than a .50 calibre machine gun (which is very bad for the victim, fyi). yes i knwo it's a game and not to "over reality it" but seige weapons should be scary.

The only thing more powerful/efficient/reliable than the later stone throwing ballsitas, didn't show up until the 1600s with well made cannons/powder. The Roman ballistas really did smash walls down like cannon balls (see the Seige of Jerusalem), smaller ones left deep holes still visible in the walls of Pompeii. (I researched them when making 3d models for my Spelljammer art).

Remove catapults except when using, or enchanted with, "Helm Seeking" missiles or the like. They never made sense, due to arc of fire.

6) I think the best method for working out helms, would be for them to drain "spell levels" of the user's choice: so many spell levels = tactical speed rating. The user sacrifices one, and only one spell.
For example, let's make Major Helms give 1 SR per spell levels, and Minor helms 1 SR per 2 levels.

7) The price of helms needs drastically reduced, it's game breaking, serious, when they cost 50,000+ gp, not only does it take too much/high levels ot get one, when they do start capturing them, the value breaks the game economy. make them much cheaper.

8) Use some of my art for the book illustrations!!

9) The conflicts with the illithid, neogi, beholder, goblinoid, Elven Imperial Navy etc, are *fantastic*. This is too good to let waste. I'd suggest making the Spelljammer itself, part of mind flayer quest lore, ie they want it to find their race's origin/re-conquer the universe etc again. The Scro are a superb NPC race, antithesis of usual orcs. The villainy of the negoi's resembles extreme Ferengis, lol, having them as the major slaving race of the multiverse is an idea (where do the slaves come from for building all these Death Stars, er, Tomb of Horrors, eh? .

10) Bring the Arcane back, make them part of Planar adventures too, merchants who'll buy/sell with anyone (almost). Opens up a lot of possibilities.

11) Ship to ship combay, high seas adventure have had a big resurgance thnaks ot the Pirate of the Caribbean films: cash in on this
I love the swasdbuckling mayhem of Spelljammer!

12) Spelljammer has giff! Giff >>>> all! 'nuff said

 

[ruleslawyer]

1) Kill the silly

2) Amp the cool

In particular, I would make the setting more accessible for low level characters and I would create a more dynamic ruleset for dealing with boarding and ship combat and a detailed system for trade.

Think Serenity via Fantasy.

See, I'd actually steer as far away from sci-fi tropes as possible. IMO, the thing that made Spelljammer potentially unique (and was insufficiently exploited in the supplemental materials) was the view of space from a pre-modern mythological/folkloric perspective. I loved flying ships, crystal spheres, phlogiston, and cockamamie cosmologies like planets floating in seas of milk or riding atop the backs of elephants standing on turtles, etc. I always strove for a Baron Munchausen feel in terms of describing how spelljamming and the setting(s) worked. The idea that the universe could actually be like a description out of a medieval manuscript was as exciting to me as the fact that D&D wildlife looks like a literalization of Pliny the Elder.

Merging sci-fi and fantasy for me is sorta old hat, and has been done often enough by now (from The High Crusade to Dragonstar to Star Wars) that I'd prefer something different, and the really unique quality of Spelljammer's "brand" to me was the medieval-cosmology-made-flesh element.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

See, I'd actually steer as far away from sci-fi tropes as possible. IMO, the thing that made Spelljammer potentially unique (and was insufficiently exploited in the supplemental materials) was the view of space from a pre-modern mythological/folkloric perspective. I loved flying ships, crystal spheres, phlogiston, and cockamamie cosmologies like planets floating in seas of milk or riding atop the backs of elephants standing on turtles, etc. I always strove for a Baron Munchausen feel in terms of describing how spelljamming and the setting(s) worked. The idea that the universe could actually be like a description out of a medieval manuscript was as exciting to me as the fact that D&D wildlife looks like a literalization of Pliny the Elder.

Merging sci-fi and fantasy for me is sorta old hat, and has been done often enough by now (from The High Crusade to Dragonstar to Star Wars) that I'd prefer something different, and the really unique quality of Spelljammer's "brand" to me was the medieval-cosmology-made-flesh element.

Aye, that I really go along with! Spelljammer is *NOT*, bloody well not sci-fi, sigh, rant aimed at so many folk over the years who kept trying to push/want it to be sci-fi...we don't need yet more Trek-clones Go play Star Wars instead, Spelljammer is D&D fantasy.

Spelljammer is pure out right weird fantasy, woot! Swash n' buckle onboard flying ships, wonderful!