Out Of Combat Action Surge Uses

[Satyrn]

I can't say I've ever seen a player use an action surge outside of combat, either, but Mistwell's example of getting one last try to catch someone from falling would be a compelling instance. It's just that for anyone who has action surge, it's not often remembered in out of combat situations - it's like a bard starting with regaining bardic inspiration on a long rest, and then four levels later they start getting it back on short OR long rest - it can be easy to forget until you get used to it.

Mistwell mentioned my experience in the OP. I was playing a dual weilding gnome (short swords). When I first got action surge, I was all eager to use it in combat, but when the moment came, I was as deflated as a Tom Brady Football. One extra attack when I was already getting 2 was as underwhelming as seeing George Costanza after a dip in the pool.

I was actively, constantly, looking for ways to use it out of combat after that.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Any encounter or challenge out of combat with a time constraint involved where normally the DM would ask the PC for their action.

What you have described is combat.

Any time there are time constraints and the order in which characters' actions are taken is important, you're in combat. Roll initiative and track rounds.

 

[the Jester]

I can't remember the specifics, but I know I have seen fighters in my game use Action Surge outside of combat a couple of times. I think one was a chase scene, but couldn't tell you off hand what the other one was.

I think the main limitation I put on it is that it has to be used for something that you can do as an action on a single turn. Mistwell's examples are all good for me, except possibly for the one where you make two checks to know something. That's the kind of thing that I probably run as "choose your check, and then you know it or you don't".

Another instance that I think has been overlooked is the case of Using an Object as an action twice in one round, such as pulling two different levers on a machine or control panel, activating a magic item twice, etc. Being able to lower and release the life boat instead of having to do one or the other could be crucial in a crisis.

 

[Mistwell]

What you have described is combat.

Any time there are time constraints and the order in which characters' actions are taken is important, you're in combat. Roll initiative and track rounds.

This is how "I attack the gazebo" scenarios happen! Combat is not any situation with time constraints and actions. A negotiation with an NPC is not combat. Disabling a trap is not combat. Climbing across a swaying rope bridge is not combat. These are all out of combat challenges which can have time constraints. When people in this thread say the rogue has lots of out of combat abilities, these are all things included in that list (though they also have abilities applicable to out of combat challenges which do not have time constraints.) Introducing a time constraint to a skill-intensive challenge does not, in itself, make it combat. Combat, by definition from the DMG is, "when a fight breaks out."

 

[Mistwell]

I think the main limitation I put on it is that it has to be used for something that you can do as an action on a single turn. Mistwell's examples are all good for me, except possibly for the one where you make two checks to know something. That's the kind of thing that I probably run as "choose your check, and then you know it or you don't".

What if the DM says, "knowledge of religion or history may help with this negotiation, but you only have time for one or the other during your turn?" Would you then allow an action surge for a second action to make the second check that turn?

 

[the Jester]

What if the DM says, "knowledge of religion or history may help with this negotiation, but you only have time for one or the other during your turn?" Would you then allow an action surge for a second action to make the second check that turn?

If a DM put it that way, sure, but that's not how I would put it myself- and obviously, I wouldn't get to make the call in someone else's game. To me, it's an "Int check to see what you know, and you can apply your proficiency bonus if you know about A or B" situation, with no "you only have time to think about some of what you know" time factor.

 

[epithet]

"In combat" vs "out of combat" is a false distinction. There is nothing in D&D other than certain Reaction abilities that requires "combat" to execute, and those Reactions only require combat because you have to be hit or targeted first.
The only meaningful distinction is whether you're in initiative order or not. Out of initiative order, everything in a 6 second turn happens at the same time. In initiative order, someone gets to go first. That's it, that's the whole difference.

 

[Mistwell]

"In combat" vs "out of combat" is a false distinction. There is nothing in D&D other than certain Reaction abilities that requires "combat" to execute, and those Reactions only require combat because you have to be hit or targeted first.
The only meaningful distinction is whether you're in initiative order or not. Out of initiative order, everything in a 6 second turn happens at the same time. In initiative order, someone gets to go first. That's it, that's the whole difference.

OK, well when people talk about some classes having more out of combat abilities built into the classes, I think they're making a distinction between "challenges of a fight" and "challenges which are not a fight". Fighters have few built-in abilities which are applicable specifically to "challenges which are not a fight" whether they are in initiative or not. Action surge is one of the few they do have which are applicable to some (but not all) "challenges which are not a fight".

 

[epithet]

OK, well when people talk about some classes having more out of combat abilities built into the classes, I think they're making a distinction between "challenges of a fight" and "challenges which are not a fight". Fighters have few built-in abilities which are applicable specifically to "challenges which are not a fight" whether they are in initiative or not. Action surge is one of the few they do have which are applicable to some (but not all) "challenges which are not a fight".

Since it would provide an additional dash, I think Action Surge would apply to most exploration challenges. I also see no reason it wouldn't provide a "fast talker" benefit to social encounters. My point was that any time you need to do more with 6 seconds than you could otherwise do, Action Surge is there for you regardless of whether anyone feels like combat is taking place.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Combat is not any situation with time constraints and actions. A negotiation with an NPC is not combat. Disabling a trap is not combat. Climbing across a swaying rope bridge is not combat.

The characters are negotiating with an NPC when one player yells "I'm sick of this, I cast a spell!", another player responds with "No, I try to stop him!", a third player says "I cast counterspell!" and the GM decides that the NPC flees. How to determine whose actions get resolved first?

The characters are caught in a room filled with flames. One of them starts picking the lock to get out. How to determine how much damage the characters take before the thief picks the lock?

The characters are climbing across a rope bridge while someone on the other side is trying to cut the bridge. How to determine whether or not they make it before the bridge is destroyed? Maybe its a race - several characters are trying to be the first to cross the bridge. How to determine who wins?

Roll Initiative (a DEX ability check) and track rounds.

The combat rules are not just for when someone is trying to harm someone else. They are for any encounter where the order of actions is important and timekeeping is required.