TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

 

[BOZ]

oh yeah, and i definitely need to say it again - go bears!

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Here's a link, to a partial piece of the article.

http://www.believermag.com/issues/200609/?read=article_lafarge

Thanks Terry,

There is a newly released book on Lake Geneva at the local book shop, so when I head there to pick up my copy, I'll see if they have The Believer as well.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Edena_of_Neith here.
Hey there, Gary Gygax. Nice to see you again.

Ok, this is going to freak you out, but it happened in a game I played in (I did *not* run this game), so I wish to ask you how you'd react as a player to the following situation:

You and a group of players get together, and your mutual friend is DMing. The module will be S2, White Plume Mountain.
Unfortunately, NOBODY has any characters above 1st level. The DM will not allow anyone to 'create' higher level characters for the module, because he feels levels must be earned. Instead, he declares you may create many 1st level characters to compensate for your lack of strength. Extra magical items and the like are not handed out as compensation, although you do get the maximum starting gold.
So, put between them, the players muster up a gaggle of around 7 1st level characters, and these will be going through White Plume Mountain.

Let's assume you are going to play in this game (of course, you created White Plume Mountain, and you know exactly what chance 7 1st level characters have in it.)
What is your reaction inwardly? How do you cope with the unfairness of it all? (because, in this case, this is the only DM around. If you refuse to play in his games, you have no alternatives ... and you *want* to play, obviously.)

I had to answer this question for myself. Now, I am curious as to what you'd be quietly thinking inside?

(Incidentally, we made it to that room with the 7 levels that guarded Black Razor. THEN we all died.)

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith

Two things:

Lawrence Schick designed White Plume Mountain, and it was not meant for 1st level PCs!

Faced wiuth the situation you set forth, I would have been a spoil-sport and simply had my PC take point so as to end the farce for him quickly, get on to playing something that would be an enjoyable challenge. Railroadiing a bunch of 1st level PCS is no fun for anyone concerned, I should have thought.

Cheers,
GAry

 

[Col_Pladoh]

oh yeah, and i definitely need to say it again - go bears!

It was a shame that the Bills were allowed a touchdown in the 4th quarter...

Indeed, Da Bearss are cruising!

Cheers,
Gary

 

[BOZ]

as i hear it though, that's only the 2nd TD the bears have allowed so far this season! yikes!

 

[Col_Pladoh]

as i hear it though, that's only the 2nd TD the bears have allowed so far this season! yikes!

Two too many if you ask me!


Gary

 

[haakon1]

Real noobs always began at 1st level. More experienced players that were joining up with the main regulars for some special adventure might begin with new PCs of 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th level. They were not missing anything, certainly, as they had already worked one or more PCs to that level and above.

Having a higher starting level often makes the difference of being able to actively participate in play

True. Being fundamentalist about "everyone starts at 1st level, everytime" is a bit of a pain, but sometimes constraints like that have interesting results. Basically we've dealt with it 3 ways:
1) Protect the noob until they're powerful enough to contribute. A 1st level character with a 9th level party has a LOW life expectency, but if they survive at all, they gain levels fast.
2) Side trek training adventures -- which can be a new campaign, and eventually lead to a Super Friends combo party of the survivors from 2 parties.
3) Monstrous characters. A 1st level centaur ranger is more surviveable than a 1st level ranger of a standard race.

 

[haakon1]

That sounds horrid, Edena. If I were the DM, I would have run your group through some side trek to at least get you up to 2nd level first.

Nod. I'm a fanatic about "everybody starts at 1st level", and I sometimes have had large parties (the largest was 9-10 characters), but I'd never through White Plume Mountain at them. More like a 1st level adventure, or perhaps a 2nd-3rd one for a really big 1st level party. 1st level is tough even against "normal" foes: bears and wolves and kobolds, oh my!

 

[Thulcondar]

True. Being fundamentalist about "everyone starts at 1st level, everytime" is a bit of a pain, but sometimes constraints like that have interesting results. Basically we've dealt with it 3 ways:
1) Protect the noob until they're powerful enough to contribute. A 1st level character with a 9th level party has a LOW life expectency, but if they survive at all, they gain levels fast.
2) Side trek training adventures -- which can be a new campaign, and eventually lead to a Super Friends combo party of the survivors from 2 parties.
3) Monstrous characters. A 1st level centaur ranger is more surviveable than a 1st level ranger of a standard race.

Personally, I almost always start PCs at 1st level (with exceptions if they are not intended to be played for long, such as if a friend is visitng for only a session or two). As a rule, I am generally lenient with 1st level characters, and while a couple usually die, it's not that difficult for them to make it to 3rd or 4th level in short order, and soon get within some semblance of even a mid-high level party.

Thulcondar

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(meant as partial humor)

Well now ... we DID flood Keraptis's main suite of rooms when someone swam down and turned the waterworks wheel.
How many 1st level characters can say they did THAT?

I admit, it was a waste of time. It was unfair. But remember that old saying: revenge is a dish best served cold.
Next time, I'm going to Rock to Mud the whole place down around Keraptis's ears. And I mean by using the OLD Rock to Mud. When Mr. 30th level Keraptis wizard shows up, I'm hitting him with Gemidon's Paralytic Missile (from the Waterdeep Boxed Set, 2nd Edition, save for half DURATION, auto-paralysis, Autokill Spell ... better by far than Power Word Stun or even those Kalamar Irresistible Spells ... and THEN we will see, how haughty and arrogant and snide Keraptis is then, when we drag him (tied to the back of a mule) all the way back from the Yeomanry to Greyhawk City in triumph.)

My old DM, the one who DMed that version of White Plume Mountain, is long gone.
But I'm sure I can find a killer DM who will let me use the old spells, without realizing what they do, and then my revenge will be assured!

And Lawrence Schick designed well, I think. I just wish a character of mine had gotten his or her hands on Black Razor ...

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith