Races and Classes--I has it!

[Reaper Steve]

Um. The design team telling me about how stellar the design team is... that's not going to convince me of anything. I'll have to wait till I see some more of the actual mechanics before I'm going to be convinced of much.

Maybe I should clarify: they aren't patting themselves on the back, it's just from the info presented it's very obvious to me how much they care about the game and how much effort has been (and continues to me) poured into it.

 

[eve_of_dante]

Odd thought: I'm betting that 14-year-old me, flipping through the Immortals box, asking my folks, "Hey, who's 'Old Nick,' anyway? These stats read like that name should mean something to me," went a long way toward assuaging their concerns about the link between D&D and the occult.

The designers actually say that part of their inspiration for epic destinies was taking the stats for gods and having god grudge matches...

 

[Ragnar_Deerslayer]

In 4e, it seems like you gain the option of picking up some class abilities and powers, to blend together the abilities of the two classes. This will neccessarily affect the claracter's "role", because a defender who takes some controller powers isn't as a good a defender who takes only defender powers. But the foundation is good enough to make the character not terribly weak.

Remember that the way it's described, it'll use a FEAT to "multiclass." And the non-multiclass feats, we have been told, are "general bonuses," not powers, which are pretty much reserved for class abilities. This means that you can't become a useless character by being a "balanced" (read: mediocre) mix of two classes. You ARE one class, and CANNOT miss out on your class powers. This means you will ALWAYS be good at some role - you will just also be good at *another* role, if you take the cross-training feats, and only lose out on some general bonus like "Alertness." And, with what we've found out on this thread about Paragon Paths, it seems like if you really want a balanced two-class hybrid, there'll be worthwhile Paths that will let you find your niche.

It's a different flavor. I think I'll like it. But then, I'm optimistic.

Ragnar

 

[eve_of_dante]

I think you sound spot on there, Ragnar! Muticlassing def. sounds very attractive in 4e.

 

[Rechan]

Oh yeah, rogues have a good bit of swashbuckler. I think it states something like: the ranger and the rogue split the swashbuckler's stuff. Point is, the rogue is supposed to get in there and mix it up.

Tell us more; the "I hope Rogues can do swashbuckly things" crowd has been saying it.

Also, any info on the ranger? Are they just "Woodsman" just "Archer", what?

 

[pawsplay]

Tell us more; the "I hope Rogues can do swashbuckly things" crowd has been saying it.

Also, any info on the ranger? Are they just "Woodsman" just "Archer", what?

I'll bet they put the range in ranger. Har har.

 

[eve_of_dante]

Tell us more; the "I hope Rogues can do swashbuckly things" crowd has been saying it.

Also, any info on the ranger? Are they just "Woodsman" just "Archer", what?

There isn't much on the Ranger; it's tacked on at the end...

They said that the main thing they did with Rogues was to make them balanced in a fight with all other classes, whereas in 3.5 they were weaker in a fight because they could do so much out of combat. In 4e all classes are theoretically equal in battle prowess and out of battle stuff...

 

[eve_of_dante]

looking up Ranger...

'precision with bow and blade'
'guerilla tactics... strike hard and move quickly'
'intuition and keen senses... you feel when danger is about to strike'
'surroundings can tell you where your foe has gone'
'agility and speed allows you to roam the battlefield'
'your body... not is it encased in steel armour'
'your talents are wasted on rabble'

 

[Rechan]

'your talents are wasted on rabble'

Now that is curious.

If all classes are equal in and out of combat, then are we told at all what the Fighter can do out of combat?

That was actually one of my biggest issues with the fighter. He's useful in combat, but otherwise, just freaking boring.

 

[eve_of_dante]

Well, the Fighter section has a lot on weapons, and seems to suggest that a Fighter can perhaps craft their own arms and armour (I may be over inferring here though...), but that's not immeadiately useful to the party I guess...

There doesn't seem to be much on these vaunted out-of-encounter abilies for any of the classes... shame, 'cause it sounds really interesting...