D&D 5E Red Flags For Classes In Sources Beyond The Player's Handbook

[Dausuul]

Not really. See sure they get profiency in medium armor and martial weapons, but martial weapons is pretty moot if you're going pact of the blade. CHA bonus to attacks and damage is cool, but really what does that add up to, 1-2 or difference at best.

You skim over the armor proficiency like it's nothing. But armor matters a lot to a melee warrior. Campaigns in my group are pretty combat-heavy, and we have a practice of "fight clubbing" newly created PCs - we stage a mock combat, then allow people to rebuild their PCs afterward, so everyone can be confident that what looked good on paper actually plays well in battle*. My hexblade's starting magic item was a broom of flying, but after the fight club, I swapped it out for a cloak of protection. Getting +1 to my AC and saving throws was that valuable. And that decision has already made a big difference in play.

Each point of AC effectively boosts your hit points (each time a monster misses you with an attack, it's as good as being healed for the amount of damage the attack would have dealt), and increases your chances to hang onto concentration. Regular warlocks have neither medium armor nor shield proficiency, and that is absolutely crippling for a front-line fighter. Hexblade would almost be worth it just for the armor and shield. Everything else is gravy.

[size=-2]*Yes, I know, we are a bunch of mouth-breathing roll-players, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Whatever. I can't dispute the point right now, I'm busy playing referee while my dead sister's soul bound into the cloak of protection argues with the diabolic spirit that animates my pact weapon. They can't agree on what to do with the slave I rescued in the last adventure, who has become a touchstone for my character's demented commitment to helping the innocent. Also, the city that serves us as a home base is morally abhorrent and I may have to start a revolution. Having a decent AC is really helpful in revolutions.[/size]

 

[neogod22]

There are many ways for the GROUP to reach their goals. The DM decides what is the most advantageous route to reach that goal. The DM must make sure that ALL the players have fun. I tell the players how it is before we start. Power gaming and role playing and everything in between will be in play, based on the make up of the party.

The group can make decisions based on the parameters of the game, true. But when I'm DMing, and I make a decision, then the players need to adjust based off my MY decision. I don't argue, I don't get in a rules debate. I don't let players take control of that part of the game because it gets out of hand fast. I don't care about your feelings about it.

 

[neogod22]

You skim over the armor proficiency like it's nothing. But armor matters a lot to a melee warrior. Campaigns in my group are pretty combat-heavy, and we have a practice of "fight clubbing" newly created PCs - we stage a mock combat, then allow people to rebuild their PCs afterward, so everyone can be confident that what looked good on paper actually plays well in battle*. My hexblade's starting magic item was a broom of flying, but after the fight club, I swapped it out for a cloak of protection. Getting +1 to my AC and saving throws was that valuable. And that decision has already made a big difference in play.

Each point of AC effectively boosts your hit points (each time a monster misses you with an attack, it's as good as being healed for the amount of damage the attack would have dealt), and increases your chances to hang onto concentration. Regular warlocks have neither medium armor nor shield proficiency, and that is absolutely crippling for a front-line fighter. Hexblade would almost be worth it just for the armor and shield. Everything else is gravy.

[size=-2]*Yes, I know, we are a bunch of mouth-breathing roll-players, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Whatever. I can't dispute the point right now, I'm busy playing referee while my dead sister's soul bound into the cloak of protection argues with the diabolic spirit that animates my pact weapon. They can't agree on what to do with the slave I rescued in the last adventure, who has become a touchstone for my character's demented commitment to helping the innocent. Also, the city that serves us as a home base is morally abhorrent and I may have to start a revolution. Having a decent AC is really helpful in revolutions.[/size]

Cool story bro. Here's the thing. The difference between light and medium armies are not that much. The best light armor with the best DEX = AC 17. The best medium armor with the best DEX = AC 17. Sure you can add a shield and take away the ability to cast the majority of your spells and buff it to AC 19, and that can be fine at low levels, once you get into mid tier 2 and beyond it doesnt even matter anymore, you're going to get it, which brings me to my point. WARLOCKS ARE NOT FRONT LINE FIGHTERS. They will not replace a paladin, barbarian, or fighter as a role of tank. They will play more of a support role like rogues, rangers, and monks. You can try and build them that way if you want to, but that HP deficit grows larger and larger each level, while the protection from your armor grows smaller and smaller.

 

[generic]

Being On DanDwiki.

 

[Dausuul]

Cool story bro. Here's the thing. The difference between light and medium armies are not that much. The best light armor with the best DEX = AC 17. The best medium armor with the best DEX = AC 17.

Ah, so you're a Dex specialist. Then what's your approach to fighting? Not two-handed; there are no two-handed weapons with finesse. Not sword-and-board; you can't use a shield. That leaves dual wielding. But you don't get access to the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, and you can only have one pact weapon, so your off-hand weapon has to be both simple and light, which means your off-hand attack does a whole 1d4 damage. Better hope you can hold concentration on hex if you want it to matter.

Hexblade fixes these problems. Want to go two-handed with a Strength weapon? No problem, you get medium armor, and 14 Dex isn't too great a strain. Want to go sword-and-board? Shield proficiency is there for you. Dual wielding? Well, okay, you're still kind of weak on the dual wielding front. But at least you can use a d6 weapon, and Hexblade's Curse likes the extra attack. Plus you can stack the Curse with a concentration spell.

Sure you can add a shield and take away the ability to cast the majority of your spells and buff it to AC 19, and that can be fine at low levels, once you get into mid tier 2 and beyond it doesnt even matter anymore, you're going to get it...

Oh? Is there some rule that says only non-hexblade warlocks are allowed to get magic bonuses to AC? Because otherwise, when the regular warlock hits AC 19, the hexblade is going to hit 21.

which brings me to my point. WARLOCKS ARE NOT FRONT LINE FIGHTERS.

YES THEY ARE. If you play a hexblade. That's my point. They work just fine in that role. I know, I've been playing one. They don't have the raw power of a fighter, but they make up for it with their assortment of dirty tricks; especially if you have a round to buff before combat. Hello, darkness, my old friend, I'm using Devil's Sight again...

 

[The Thrasson]

The group can make decisions based on the parameters of the game, true. But when I'm DMing, and I make a decision, then the players need to adjust based off my MY decision. I don't argue, I don't get in a rules debate. I don't let players take control of that part of the game because it gets out of hand fast. I don't care about your feelings about it.

I agree. The players are never in control. There is no argument. There is no debate. I set it up before hand based on their decisions about their characters. One player cannot be allowed to dominate the game at the expense of other player's enjoyment because of some flaw in rules we have no say in. DMs and players give too much time and effort into enjoying RPGing to let some rule ruin it all.

 

[neogod22]

Ah, so you're a Dex specialist. Then what's your approach to fighting? Not two-handed; there are no two-handed weapons with finesse. Not sword-and-board; you can't use a shield. That leaves dual wielding. But you don't get access to the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, and you can only have one pact weapon, so your off-hand weapon has to be both simple and light, which means your off-hand attack does a whole 1d4 damage. Better hope you can hold concentration on hex if you want it to matter.

Hexblade fixes these problems. Want to go two-handed with a Strength weapon? No problem, you get medium armor, and 14 Dex isn't too great a strain. Want to go sword-and-board? Shield proficiency is there for you. Dual wielding? Well, okay, you're still kind of weak on the dual wielding front. But at least you can use a d6 weapon, and Hexblade's Curse likes the extra attack. Plus you can stack the Curse with a concentration spell.


Oh? Is there some rule that says only non-hexblade warlocks are allowed to get magic bonuses to AC? Because otherwise, when the regular warlock hits AC 19, the hexblade is going to hit 21.


YES THEY ARE. If you play a hexblade. That's my point. They work just fine in that role. I know, I've been playing one. They don't have the raw power of a fighter, but they make up for it with their assortment of dirty tricks; especially if you have a round to buff before combat. Hello, darkness, my old friend, I'm using Devil's Sight again...

What level is your warlock?

 

[Dausuul]

What level is your warlock?

6th. What level is yours?

 

[neogod22]

6th. What level is yours?

Talk to me when you get one past 10.

I have a lvl 16 undead pact warlock that was formally a fiend pact before the SCAG reroll. I think he has enough XP for 17, I don't want to level out if tier 3 yet.

Lvl 15 GOO that I retired because I got bored of him.
Lvl 8 Tiefling Celestial Pact

I playtested the Hexblade before the official version came out in my playtest group.

I played around with a few alternate and multiclass builds. My 15th lvl. GOO just became a 12 mastermind/3 GOO pact of the chain (the DM allowed)

I've played every warlock except a fey pact. I've been wanting to build one, just haven't gotten around. I know I've created more warlocks for other games, but probably dumped them when they started becoming the same as other characters.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

Hmm. Perhaps the Aarakocra as a race choice. Simply because, unlike a typical ground-based PC stumbling over and falling to the ground, being stunned/KO'd or the like whilst flying can typical end a character through falling damage, at least at early levels.

...and in my experience, a player that chooses a flying race is gonna fly! Fly high!

Sure you can explain the dangers before hand though it tends to be one of those learning curves that starts with a second, less splatted, character.