D&D 5E Warlocks and Hex and the "daily morning short rest"

[Flamestrike]

I think you've distracted others from the good point that you make by answering bad player behavior with bad DM behavior - which is what rolling dice when the result isn't uncertain is, because you can have a monster encounter happen without a roll if you want to, so adding a false roll is only adding that you as a DM lie even when it doesn't serve any actual purpose.

Utterly untrue. A good DM knows when to roll dice for reasons other than for generating a number.

I'll roll dice from time to time behind the screen for no reason (and then spend a second or two pretending to look something up, raise my eyebrows, shake my head, and then look up at the players... and ask them what they're doing). Ill sometimes roll for random monsters when my players are beat up and resting (but ignore the roll because theyre beat up and a random monster would be too harsh) just to scare the players.

Its part of the showmanship and Art of DMing.

The better solution, in my opinion, is to simply point out that a rest - whether long or short - is not a precisely timed thing. A short rest is at least 1 hour, so 3 hours spent resting is just a single short rest taking longer than the minimum required time, and a long rest is at least 8 hours, so 9 hours spent resting - even with a spell cast 8 hours into it - is just a single long rest taking longer than the minimum required time.

I dont need to point it out. Sometimes I'll just handwaive a short rest. I'm not an ogre. I aim to allow a short rest every 2-3 encounters, and a long rest every 6-8.

Most of the time I do this via time limited quests.

If my players try and game the rest mechanic (or any other mechanic), they get firmly told 'No that doesnt work'. If they're trying something really gamist or to exploit a particular mechanic, they get beat down. Dont play the player and all that.

It only happens the once, and they catch on. I'm firm but fair. You play your chararacter, and I'll create the adventures and we'll all have fun. You try and game the system and you'll find out the House always wins at my table.

If you dont like it, then you know where the door is.

Im Australian, and my favorite sport is our national sport of Cricket. Cricket is played in the Spirit of the Game (and not just to the letter of the law). There is a code of honor and sportsmanship in Cricket that you dont see in other sports. A social contract if you will. Its also like the Westminster system of government we use over here that is governed by conventions and not rules. I mean yeah; technically the Queen can veto any Bill before it becomes Law, and technically Her Majesty is Commander in chief of the Armed forces of Australia, but by convention she doesnt exersize those powers.

I run my games with the same expectations. Try and game the system and you'll get warned once, punished the second time, and booted the third.

And when (or rather, if, since the situation is not inevitable) players try to insist they have stopped resting because of X reason and they want to rest again, all it takes is to point out that if they are intent upon immediately returning to rest without actually having accomplished something, that sounds like resting longer, not again to you.

Nah man, I dont do long drawn out discussions or justifications at my table. I just come back with a simple 'You rest for an hour, but dont feel any better. In fact, you're worried that during the hours worth of time you just wasted, the hostages you've been sent to rescue might have gotten killed (DM looks down, rolls some dice, ignores the result, feigns a look of concern and shakes head)'

The players catch on quickly.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Its part of the showmanship and Art of DMing.

It's an unnecessary part, if a part at all.

I've entirely phased it out of my repertoire and have only seen improvements to my game. Make of that what you will.

I'm not an ogre.

If they're trying something really gamist or to exploit a particular mechanic, they get beat down. Dont play the player and all that.

You try and game the system and you'll find out the House always wins at my table.

If you dont like it, then you know where the door is.

These bits make the whole statement seem like you have two parts of yourself at odds - the "ogre" that feels the need to slap-down your players in a show of dominance if they dare to offend your sensibilities, and the side that thinks you are fair and reasonable and would just say "No, that doesn't work" as I have suggested is all that is necessary.

Nah man, I dont do long drawn out discussions or justifications at my table.

The discussion to which I referred is neither "drawn out" nor any kind of "justification", it is just this:

Player: "At the end of the long rest, I cast X. Then we take a short rest."
DM: "That's not how rest works." [and moving right on with the game]

The players catch on quickly.

No matter how quickly they catch on, it seems obvious to me that they would catch on even more quickly if you were direct and clear, rather than just strongly hinting.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Its not how the world works. The rules of the game of DnD are not a reflection of the objective reality of some alternate universe.

For practical purposes, your statement is incorrect. Although it is technically true that there is no alternate universe which the rules are actually reflecting, for the purpose of playing, we must treat it as though it is the case. Failure to do so would make role-playing impossible.

'Resting' is how Dungeons and Dragons handles resource replenishment. Dungeons and Dragons is a game. A game based around resource management (at its core). Hit points, Hit dice, gold pieces, XP, spell slots, charges, dailies, 1/short rest etc are all resources that need to be managed.

Dungeons & Dragons is a role-playing game, which means the players take on the role of their characters, and make decisions from that perspective. If you treated these resources as purely out-of-game concepts, which were not strictly representative of any in-game reality, then you would be committing the illegal act of meta-gaming which is condemned as the anti-thesis of role-playing.

You cannot play a game if you do not know its rules, and you cannot play a role-playing game if the rules for the player do not reflect the rules for the character.

 

[bedir than]

Most DM's won't allow it because the base assumption is that you are going to sleep for at least part of the long rest, and you can't concentrate while you are unconscious. Some DM's don't have a problem with it.

I think think you can skate by on a technicality (once) - while it is generally assumed you sleep on a long rest, it's not actually required. If I'm the DM, be prepared for ad hoc penalties if you try to do it for more than one long rest in a row.

A sleeping character is not unconscious. This is true in real life and the game.

So, if you allow Concentration through a Short Rest you must allow it through a Long Rest.

 

[Caliban]

A sleeping character is not unconscious. This is true in real life and the game.

So, if you allow Concentration through a Short Rest you must allow it through a Long Rest.

*sigh* OK, I'll bite. How do you reach the conclusion that being asleep does not also mean you are unconscious?

 

[bedir than]

This is why I will not let my players tell me they are taking a Rest while concentrating.

 

[Immoralkickass]

A sleeping character is not unconscious. This is true in real life and the game.

So, if you allow Concentration through a Short Rest you must allow it through a Long Rest.

A person with eyes closed is not blind either, but for all intents and purposes, they are the same. Its already established that long rest is for sleeping.

 

[Flamestrike]

For practical purposes, your statement is incorrect. Although it is technically true that there is no alternate universe which the rules are actually reflecting, for the purpose of playing, we must treat it as though it is the case. Failure to do so would make role-playing impossible.

Dungeons & Dragons is a role-playing game, which means the players take on the role of their characters, and make decisions from that perspective. If you treated these resources as purely out-of-game concepts, which were not strictly representative of any in-game reality, then you would be committing the illegal act of meta-gaming which is condemned as the anti-thesis of role-playing.

The Dungeon master cannot 'metagame'. For the billionth time.

You cannot play a game if you do not know its rules, and you cannot play a role-playing game if the rules for the player do not reflect the rules for the character.

Go buy yourself a copy of Paranoia. Its predicated on the players not knowing the rules.

In fact, knowledge of the rules is treason. And treason is punishable by death.

 

[Flamestrike]

No matter how quickly they catch on, it seems obvious to me that they would catch on even more quickly if you were direct and clear, rather than just strongly hinting.

I am direct and clear. Im a little uncertain how much more clear I can be.

 

[Caliban]

The Dungeon master cannot 'metagame'. For the billionth time.

A game master can absolutely meta game. Deny it a billion more times, it will still be true.

Monsters with no prior knowledge of the PC's somehow being prepared with exactly the right countermeasures for their usual tactics? DM is metagaming.

A unique magic item that is "perfect" for a PC's character concept "just happens" to be in the possession of a random group of monsters (or in their lair, etc.). DM is metagaming.

A monster with a specific vulnerability is coming up, so the DM includes a weapon/wand/scroll that deals exactly that type of damage in the treasure just before they have to fight it? DM is metagaming.

DM's metagame all the time. It's in the job description. Sometimes they do it to make the game more fun or more challenging, sometimes they do it just because they are being petty and adversarial. But it definitely happens.