When Your Group Jumps the Shark

catsclaw227 · Mar 4, 2009

Dungeon Editorial: Dungeon #164

It's an interesting read. I had a group do this a couple of times, when you wanted to stop DMing and say something like: "You guys are normally really good players, using each others' abilities in unison and thinking outside the box.... but today, you guys SUCK!

"

Sometimes, the gaming group is just plain off. Just like I am as a DM every-so-often.

Nagol · Mar 4, 2009

I agree that every group has off days.

I don't agree that letting the dice fall where they may "punishes" a group that is acting poorly any more than a group that is acting competently is being "rewarded" by letting the dice fall where they may.

As a DM, I may reiterate the circumstances and observations of the group if I feel there is a disconnect or if I feel the group needs to focus. I may have allied NPCs call out observations, ideas, or fears. I will not change the basic situation for or against the PCs once it is in play.

As a player, I absolutely hate that philosophy; if I succeed, I want it to be from my actions. I want the consequences of my actions to matter both for good and ill.

As a DM, my group knows it's time to worry if I seem to get worried. I want the players to succeed, but success is theirs to earn.

Aeolius · Mar 5, 2009

sometimes they jump them, sometimes they swim under them...

Kzach · Mar 5, 2009

There's no way I'd fudge rolls to help a group.

Like in the other thread, if you present a door (or a gun) to the players in a way that makes it interesting and inviting, then you have to expect them to go through it. But on the flip-side of that, it's their choice to go through it and close it behind them and take on the epic-level dragon behind it at 1st-level.

If they don't run, then they're toast. Decisions should have consequences. Bad or good decisions should generally have bad or good consequences, otherwise there's no point in rolling dice or having players make decisions.

Umbran · Mar 5, 2009

Wow. That's a complete failure to understand the meaning of the term, "jump the shark".

Jumping the shark is not failing, or having a bad day. Jumping the shark is doing really outlandish and nonsensical things in order to generate interest in a flagging storyline.

It is coined after an episode of Happy Days, where Arthur Fonzarelli does a motorcycle jump over a shark tank - it was pointless for the show, but a spectacle for the audience to get them to watch.

That has nothing to do with what's up in that editorial.

Shroomy · Mar 5, 2009

Umbran said:
Wow. That's a complete failure to understand the meaning of the term, "jump the shark".

Jumping the shark is not failing, or having a bad day. Jumping the shark is doing really outlandish and nonsensical things in order to generate interest in a flagging storyline.

It is coined after an episode of Happy Days, where Arthur Fonzarelli does a motorcycle jump over a shark tank - it was pointless for the show, but a spectacle for the audience to get them to watch.

That has nothing to do with what's up in that editorial.

To be fair, IME the meaning of "jump the shark" has gotten away from its original definition and is now more synonymous with "fail." Personally, I hate the phrase.

However, if your party if jumping a vat of acid filled with sharks, that's all good.

I'm A Banana · Mar 5, 2009

Man, that's a pretty cruddy article on a few levels.

#1: Misuse a term
#2: Give advice that robs all the challenge from the game.

Awesome.

Man, I gotta submit something to Dungeon, they must be reaching if they're publishing advice like this... :erm:

rounser · Mar 5, 2009

Jumping the shark is not failing, or having a bad day. Jumping the shark is doing really outlandish and nonsensical things in order to generate interest in a flagging storyline.

Like introducing contrived names such as "dragonborn" to the PHB1 implied setting, nonsensical terms like eladrin (because sub-races like "high elf" aren't neat-little-boxes enough) and nonexistent, inappropriate archetypes like the "warlord". :rant:

As in the phrase, "With 4th edition, Dungeons & Dragons jumped the shark."

Umbran · Mar 5, 2009

rounser said:
As in the phrase, "With 4th edition, Dungeons & Dragons jumped the shark."

You know, the edition bashing here was entirely uncalled for. I see no reason why it should be tolerated in this thread. Take it elsewhere - preferably another messageboard. We're getting pretty tired of it here.

I seriously suggest that nobody pick up the gauntlet.

ProfessorCirno · Mar 5, 2009

The other thing to note about jumping the shark is that it's typically so outlandish and over the top that the show literally cannot come back after it - it's the loud bang before the decline.

When Your Group Jumps the Shark

catsclaw227

First Post

Nagol

Unimportant

Aeolius

Adventurer

Kzach

Banned

Umbran

Mod Squad

Shroomy

Adventurer

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich

rounser

First Post

Umbran

Mod Squad

ProfessorCirno

Banned

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