Refreshing Surges Con Mod per day instead of all

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Stalker0

Legend

• Dec 22, 2009

• #1

My friend is starting a new game and he is trying out a new rule to make 4e combat grittier.

When a player gets an extended rest in less than ideal conditions (aka not in a nice bed in an inn or something), he gets back a number of healing surges equal to his con mod. When resting in an inn, he gets an additional +2 surges. So yes, a player with a 10 con gets no surges back, and a player with an 8 con actually loses surges as he camps out there.

We've played a couple of sessions now and its definitely working as intended. I ran flat out of surges last game session, and the party has to be more cautious. There are people actually considering taking the durable feat!

Ultimately it might be a bit too much, perhaps mod +1 or 2 would be ideal...but if your looking for some more grit in your game this might be right down your alley.

 

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the Jester

Legend

• Dec 22, 2009

• #2

Hoo boy, I like that a lot.

The whole "fully healed and refreshed upon resting 5 hours" thing is one of my biggest issues with 4e, honestly, and this might just go a long way towards solving the problem.

 

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radja

First Post

• Dec 22, 2009

• #3

I like the idea, but actually losing surges for resting sounds a bit too harsh. this may lead to characters staying awake indefinately (so I don't get dailies... at least I still have surges). my first idea:
-resting in a bed: recover surges as normal.
-resting in a decent camp (with tent and blanket): recover twice your con mod surges, with a minimum of 1 surge.
-resting in the open field (no tent and/or blanket): recover con mod surges, minimum 0

this way you can rest in an adventure, without tiring yourself out just sleeping.

 

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Rothe_

First Post

• Dec 22, 2009

• #4

This rule's real problem is that it favors constitution as an ability score way too much.

Con is already a really nice stat. There is no reason to make it even more important.

I'd rather make a rule that you only recover 3 surges per rest or something. That is it. Maybe add a feat that lets you recover more, that has a con prerequisite.

 

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sfedi

First Post

• Dec 22, 2009

• #5

The number of surges recovered is a real problem here.

Con bonus: Too much power on a stat that don't need more power.

Arbitrary number: isn't balanced, it disrupts the balance between defenders with a lot of surges that are assumed to consume more surges than the other roles to do their job

Perhaps a percentage number is a little more balanced.
Deael with fractions with having a chance to get one surge.

For example, if you recover one third your surges, someone with 8 surges would recover 2 surges and a 2/3 chance of another one (rol 3 or more on a d6).

 

S

Stalker0

Legend

• Dec 23, 2009

• #6

sfedi said:

The number of surges recovered is a real problem here.

Con bonus: Too much power on a stat that don't need more power.

Click to expand...

Con is a stat I rarely see an 8 placed in...but I rarely see a 14 or better either. Its no where near its 3.5 strength.

I also have noticed in my games that the biggest surge users are actually melee strikers. They don't have the defenses of defenders and they don't get back as much per surge...so they wind up spending a lot more surges. In this respect I can agree that the number of surges returned to each class might be imbalanced.


Here are a couple of ideas for people who like the concept, but don't like the current implementation I have suggested.

1) Just as each class gets an X amount of hitpoints per level, also give them a Y amount of surges recovered after each extended rest. Maybe fighters get 3 and clerics get 2 or something.

2) You could modify the durable feat or add a new feat that allowed a class to recover +con mod surges per day....or replace there normal number with their con mod...etc.

 

the Jester

Legend

• Dec 23, 2009

• #7

Rothe_ said:

This rule's real problem is that it favors constitution as an ability score way too much.

Con is already a really nice stat. There is no reason to make it even more important.

Click to expand...

Why do you think it's so good already? Pretty much all you get out of it is starting hit points; it no longer effects hp per level, so it has lost most of its weight (unless you use it for powers, which is a whole other subject).

 

john112364

First Post

• Dec 23, 2009

• #8

I think this would hurt defenders like the paladin who use their surges for things other than healing themselves. A paladin with a decent wisdom could potentially use more surges than say a fighter with the same number of surges. I would favor 1/4 your surges under less than ideal conditions with your con mod as a bonus for good conditions (such as an inn).

Of course, if you like the really gritty feel, I would amend the rule to make it a minimum of 1. You should never lose surges for resting. Maybe con +1? Still a harsh game world. (But not like trying to survive GURPS )

 

Nifft

Penguin Herder

• Dec 23, 2009

• #9

the Jester said:

Pretty much all you get out of it is starting hit points; it no longer effects hp per level, so it has lost most of its weight

Click to expand...

Starting HP, surges per day, and Fort defense (if you don't already need Strength).

If you're not a Defender, your Con bonus may make up a significant portion of your daily surges. For a Wizard -- probably the most extreme example -- the difference between 10 Con and 14 Con is significant: 10 Con gives you (6 surges * 5 hp) = 30 hp/day, while 14 Con gives you (8 surges * 6 hp) = 48 hp/day. And that's just healing. The +4 max HP helps a bit too.

I'd suggest:

• Each PC gets back 3 surges per extended rest.
• +1 at Paragon, +1 at Epic
• +1 for a Heroic feat (requires Con 13)
• +1 for being a Defender, or having Defender HP (like a Barbarian)

Cheers, -- N

 

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sfedi

First Post

• Dec 23, 2009

• #10

Another, simpler way, would be to just give them back their surges after 2 or 3 Long Rests.

Perhaps 2 comfortable Long Rests count as one Long Rest.
3 outdoor, but prepared, Long rests count as one Long Rest.
4 crappy outdoor rests count as one Long Rest.

Anyway, the amount of combats the party will be able to take on will still be dependant con the amount of Long Rests it can take/Surges that they can get back.