Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't care about numbers...

ExploderWizard · Jul 29, 2014

Ruin Explorer said:
Obviously I can only show you published adventures, not my own, but you need look no further than Logan Bonner's Blood Money in Dungeon 200, which is full of such things.

Perhaps you'd like to read it and then comment again?

I would love to read it. Is it available for sale? My last subscription issue of Dungeon was in the late 180's.

Ruin Explorer · Jul 29, 2014

ExploderWizard said:
I would love to read it. Is it available for sale? My last subscription issue of Dungeon was in the late 180's.

I honestly do not know! I suspect it's only available if one has a DDI sub, but if you have a friend with one, he could probably let you read it.

Drawing from my own game, I often have challenges that can potentially be negotiated without rolling, or with no more rolling than 5E or 2E or whatever. I think I mentioned it recently but we had an eight-hour session with one combat (right at the end) and probably an average of about 3 rolls/hour, if that, for the rest (no exaggeration/hyperbole, I know that's non-standard for the internet!), all of those because people were trying essentially opposed skills (sneaking, lying, spying, etc.). All the major stuff that happened was because the players thought it through, talked to NPCs, set up social occasions, manipulated people (usually in non-roll-requiring ways), considered how to disarm things, did legwork (so much legwork!) and so on.

There were potentially half a dozen or more combat encounters, had they chosen certain ways of approaching things (including one where they would have had four+ encounters at once, had they really screwed up! Pretty much certain retreat/surrender/death scenario there), but they avoided all of those but the last (which to be fair was pretty inevitable - though not completely so - I think that's pretty fair in D&D). I can absolutely bore you in huge detail on this, if desired.

Reynard · Jul 31, 2014

Also, I hate "build" perhaps more than any other word in the D&D discussion lexicon. I hate the way it dominates discussion and the results when it happens at the table. I hate that the very idea converts the character into a string of numbers and sucks the life out of the pretend elf in the basement. Ugh.

Herobizkit · Jul 31, 2014

For myself, I'm happy with the direction 5e seems to be taking - taking much of the crunch from 3 and 4e, shaving off the excess, and leaving you with a shiny new character bogged down with none of the pretense of "what's his DPS?"

The game also includes a whole chapter (4, I think?) for making a character a "person" in addition to a by-the-numbers character.

When it comes to discussions in this forum (about D&D, not EnWorld), however, the only shared reality for the readers is the system itself. It's great that, in your campaign, Elves have pearlescent skin and communicate only through music - but unless your Elves also have specific changes from the PHB as written, people will assume he's a "generic elf with fluff" and no longer have any shared basis to talk about.

In short, you're telling a story about your game instead of talking about "The Game" (D&D, not Triple H).

Sadras · Jul 31, 2014

I'm with the OP.

Our group once played a D&D adventure (4 sessions) where the only information on the character sheet was:

Name;
Sex;
2 Skills/Proficiencies;
2 Primary Abilities (with no figures); and
Equipment

The group enjoyed it and the storyline moved fast - focussing mostly on the exploration (primarily) and social pillars. We used something similar to the SIEGE mechanic of Castles and Crusades. If a task involved a Primary Ability or Proficiency/Skill we lowered the difficulty as per normal.

I'm in the mood to run a political storyline along the same lines, but this time focus primarily on the social pillar, leaving exploration as secondary and combat as tertiary. I just have to think up a good political-thriller. :hmm:

Crothian · Jul 31, 2014

Reynard said:
Also, I hate "build" perhaps more than any other word in the D&D discussion lexicon. I hate the way it dominates discussion and the results when it happens at the table. I hate that the very idea converts the character into a string of numbers and sucks the life out of the pretend elf in the basement. Ugh.

It is a plague upon our house.

pemerton · Jul 31, 2014

Herobizkit said:
The game also includes a whole chapter (4, I think?) for making a character a "person" in addition to a by-the-numbers character.

I wonder how much that will resemble the 8-or-so page discussion of such matters in the 4e PHB.

Herobizkit · Jul 31, 2014

pemerton said:
I wonder how much that will resemble the 8-or-so page discussion of such matters in the 4e PHB.

At the risk of edition-warring, all I'm gonna say is, for all that 4e tried to encourage story/plot, I feel that it was not and was never intended to be the focus of the system as presented.

keterys · Jul 31, 2014

Herobizkit said:
At the risk of edition-warring, all I'm gonna say is, for all that 4e tried to encourage story/plot, I feel that it was not and was never intended to be the focus of the system as presented.

Nah, 4E was lasered in on D&D as an action movie. It was very much about the story/plot, as any well designed blockbuster might be. It _was_ an awful lot less about exploring corridors 10-ft at a time and tracking rations, for sure, but even much maligned skill challenges were actually a story device.

There are definitely groups who got distracted by the combat-sport side of it and basically just did monster mashes, though. I've seen it happen for any system. I remember it coming up in every Storyteller game, for instance.

There are also plenty of people whose eyes rolled back into their heads at the formulaic nature of powers and classes, and in boredom saw no more of the system. I even know some hardened rules junkies who hit that problem.

But anti-story? Nope, not an edition feature.

Pickles JG · Jul 31, 2014

Sadras said:
I'm with the OP.

Our group once played a D&D adventure (4 sessions) where the only information on the character sheet was:

Name;

Sex;

2 Skills/Proficiencies;

2 Primary Abilities (with no figures); and

Equipment

The group enjoyed it and the storyline moved fast - focussing mostly on the exploration (primarily) and social pillars. We used something similar to the SIEGE mechanic of Castles and Crusades. If a task involved a Primary Ability or Proficiency/Skill we lowered the difficulty as per normal.

I'm in the mood to run a political storyline along the same lines, but this time focus primarily on the social pillar, leaving exploration as secondary and combat as tertiary. I just have to think up a good political-thriller.

While that is unquestionably roleplaying I would argue that it is not D&D or at least it doesn not reflect the essence of D&D. I do not need a bunch of rule books to run that sort of game, I just need a bit of a story & player buy in.

When I buy rules I want them to provide something that I cannot just come up with on the fly. This ususally involves rich "fluff" & robust mechanics. If the fluff says one thing but the mechanics ie the numbers do not then this is irritating & makes the rules not fit for purpose (I am harsh on rules - but getting mellower

) If the setting is cool & I get inspired I will play a game without engaging with its mechanics - like your game above. I do not find these have the longevity of games that engage on multiple levels though.

This is why I am interested in the numbers, not just the ideas presented.

It is probably one reason I like 4e monster manual when loads of people hated it. I could draw on the rich flavour of the 2e books & apply it to the clean mechanical implementations in 4e. If I had only got the 4e I can see why people would have found it dry at best (as I did for things like Swordwings with no history in the game. )

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't care about numbers...

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