Unearthed Arcana Psionics Hits Unearthed Arcana

TheCosmicKid · Jul 11, 2015

Just a reminder that H. P. Lovecraft was perceived to be writing fantasy horror for the better part of his career. It didn't take a turn for the (pseudo)scientific until At the Mountains of Madness. I don't see why "squid monsters" are any more intrinsically SF than shark monsters, spider monsters, or bat monsters. There was, after all, a squid monster in Tolkien, and while of course it didn't manifest any obvious psionics, it did have the whole "unknown entity from before the current order of the universe" thing going on.

EzekielRaiden · Jul 11, 2015

Jeff Carlsen said:
It is also worth noting that the Freudian terms like Id and Ego are just Latin translations meaning "it" and "I" respectively. He preferred to use the common terms for the concepts.

Not that Freud's idea of how the mind actually worked is even remotely like the real thing. I mean, you can indulge in the...peculiarities of Freud's theories as part of a work of fiction, and it can even be okay for doing so (Monster from the Id, anyone?). But Freud's theories are so widely understood to be...peculiar and non-scientific that a work that hinged, critically, on concepts like penis envy and the Oedipus complex would risk alienating itself, or even upsetting the reader. And if we're not going to take any of the important details and only use the shallow pop-psychology version, why worry about the ways Freud himself preferred to use the terms?

Also, technically speaking "id" is usually translated as "that," rather than "it," and it can be used in place of essentially any third-person pronoun (that is, not just "it," but also "he," "she," and "they"--it's a generic demonstrative without the impersonal connotations of "it" and "that" in English), and Latin speakers in general didn't use the word "ego" unless they wanted to be really especially clear. That is, self-reference was generally left to context or implied by conjugation. For comparison, in English, we use stress to indicate when we are distinguishing one group/person from another, e.g.: "You will stay here, while I go to the market." Both of the italicized words would have contrastive stress, if the speaker wanted to emphasize the difference in the two groups. In Latin, both of these pronouns would be absent in standard speech, so the emphasis is created simply by adding "tu" and "ego," no need to use stress at all.

Minigiant · Jul 11, 2015

Jeff Carlsen said:
I get that much, though I don't believe you speak for everyone who makes the "too science fiction claim".

Personally, I've always liked that Psions have a better understanding of the world, including things like atoms, energy, and psychology. Heck, I tend to assume that wizards understand these concepts as well. So it never felt it of place.

It is also worth noting that the Freudian terms like Id and Ego are just Latin translations meaning "it" and "I" respectively. He preferred to use the common terms for the concepts.

I personally didn't think Psionics was too sci fi nor thought that everyone thought it was too sci fi. But the percentage of those who did was large enough and loud enough for Mearls think about to scraping the science terms.

brehobit · Jul 11, 2015

It's interesting to see how the Order of the Immortal compares to the other martials. Just the ability to always start combat at a bit more than half hit points is huge. Only having access to one discipline limits the nova potential, but it's still there (mainly as a multi-class I'd think). As far as I can see we've got a character that does very well if there is only a 1 encounter day and very well if it is an 8+ encounter day but is perhaps sub-par on a 4 encounter day when compared to the other martials.

Iron hide should make it clear how long the bonus lasts (just the one attack I assume is the intent).

Certainly a bit odd, but nothing too crazy.

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 11, 2015

brehobit said:
It's interesting to see how the Order of the Immortal compares to the other martials. Just the ability to always start combat at a bit more than half hit points is huge.

Is it? I thought you were playing in a pirate campaign where usually only one fight happens in a day. Doesn't that mean everyone starts most combats at not merely half but full health?

In my campaign, most PC who drop below half health seem to usually (60%?) die messily either that same round or the following round, and it's common to heal any damage taken after combat with Aura of Vitality, so the ability would be more "cool" than "powerful." It would save some SPs and HD, but that's about it.

Edit: but if by "huge" you meant "awesome" as opposed to "overpowered", I agree! It makes me want to play an Immortal Barbearian. Normally I hate melee types because they are all about attrition, but with regen, attrition becomes fun.

Mistwell · Jul 11, 2015

I still don't get the insistence by so many that psionics was always sci-fi.

Arthur Collins of TSR wrote much of the original Psionics rules. Arthur was informed by the Deryni novels by Katherine Kurtz, which are 100% fantasy and which have no sci-fi elements at all. He said so, and wrote the Psionicist class right along side two Deryni articles in the same Dragon Magazine.

brehobit · Jul 11, 2015

Hemlock said:
Is it? I thought you were playing in a pirate campaign where usually only one fight happens in a day. Doesn't that mean everyone starts most combats at not merely half but full health?

In my campaign, most PC who drop below half health seem to usually (60%?) die messily either that same round or the following round, and it's common to heal any damage taken after combat with Aura of Vitality, so the ability would be more "cool" than "powerful." It would save some SPs and HD, but that's about it.

Edit: but if by "huge" you meant "awesome" as opposed to "overpowered", I agree! It makes me want to play an Immortal Barbearian. Normally I hate melee types because they are all about attrition, but with regen, attrition becomes fun.

I'm not sure if it's overpowered or not. In the game I'm in, it would be fairly minor but given that we have nearly no PC healing (just a ranger) it would certainly help on occasion. And the ability to use a power to spend hit dice without a short rest could be very nice indeed.

As always, it's going to vary by how the DM runs things. I think other martials will still have their own place, but this one looks like a lot of fun without clearly stepping on anyone else's toes. If the class ever gets two attacks/action as a thing then we probably have a problem. But as it stands it looks perfectly fine.

Mercule · Jul 11, 2015

Mistwell said:
I still don't get the insistence by so many that psionics was always sci-fi.

Arthur Collins of TSR wrote much of the original Psionics rules. Arthur was informed by the Deryni novels by Katherine Kurtz, which are 100% fantasy and which have no sci-fi elements at all. He said so, and wrote the Psionicist class right along side two Deryni articles in the same Dragon Magazine.

I finally started reading the Deryni novels, based on the recent psionics threads. I'm midway through Deryni Checkmate (book 2, FWIW) and I just don't see the psionics connection, yet. Sure, the power is in-born, kinda, but it's got all the trappings of arcana. Does it evolve, in later books?

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 11, 2015

brehobit said:
I'm not sure if it's overpowered or not. In the game I'm in, it would be fairly minor but given that we have nearly no PC healing (just a ranger) it would certainly help on occasion. And the ability to use a power to spend hit dice without a short rest could be very nice indeed.

Oh, good point. Iron Durability and Psionic Regeneration do synergize rather well.

Jeff Carlsen · Jul 11, 2015

EzekielRaiden said:
Not that Freud's idea of how the mind actually worked is even remotely like the real thing. I mean, you can indulge in the...peculiarities of Freud's theories as part of a work of fiction, and it can even be okay for doing so (Monster from the Id, anyone?). But Freud's theories are so widely understood to be...peculiar and non-scientific that a work that hinged, critically, on concepts like penis envy and the Oedipus complex would risk alienating itself, or even upsetting the reader. And if we're not going to take any of the important details and only use the shallow pop-psychology version, why worry about the ways Freud himself preferred to use the terms?

Also, technically speaking "id" is usually translated as "that," rather than "it," and it can be used in place of essentially any third-person pronoun (that is, not just "it," but also "he," "she," and "they"--it's a generic demonstrative without the impersonal connotations of "it" and "that" in English), and Latin speakers in general didn't use the word "ego" unless they wanted to be really especially clear. That is, self-reference was generally left to context or implied by conjugation. For comparison, in English, we use stress to indicate when we are distinguishing one group/person from another, e.g.: "You will stay here, while I go to the market." Both of the italicized words would have contrastive stress, if the speaker wanted to emphasize the difference in the two groups. In Latin, both of these pronouns would be absent in standard speech, so the emphasis is created simply by adding "tu" and "ego," no need to use stress at all.

All this is true. My point is that the model of Id, Ego, and Superego is really a simple one, and that the terms used would make sense to medieval scholars if the model were described to them. So I have no problem with those terms being used in psionic powers in a fantasy game.

Unearthed Arcana Psionics Hits Unearthed Arcana

TheCosmicKid

Hero

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way

Minigiant

Legend

brehobit

Explorer

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

brehobit

Explorer

Mercule

Adventurer

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

Jeff Carlsen

Adventurer

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