D&D 5E Wizard archetype needed!

DND_Reborn · Jun 1, 2019

So, for the life of me, I can't find this... I know there is an archetype for Clerics who worship gods of magic or something so they get some limited Arcane spells, but isn't there also a Wizard archetype that had limited access to Divine spells? The Sorcerer bloodline is close, and maybe that is what I am thinking of, but I thought there was a Wizard archetype. Anyone know of something I am forgetting??? Thanks!

EDIT:

The closest thing I found is the School of Theurgy in UA, but it isn't quite what I am looking for. If you have any other ideas please let me know.

ArwensDaughter · Jun 1, 2019

Only one I can think of in 5e is theurge.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 1, 2019

In 3.5/Pathfinder there is the Mystic Theurge, which is a multiclassed wizard/cleric who gains caster levels in both classes simultaneously.

DND_Reborn · Jun 1, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
In 3.5/Pathfinder there is the Mystic Theurge, which is a multiclassed wizard/cleric who gains caster levels in both classes simultaneously.

I wonder how that would translate into 5E... I never played Pathfinder and 3.5 for one a few months over 10 years ago.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 1, 2019

Not easily!

Tales and Chronicles · Jun 1, 2019

I'll give it a try:

School of Theurgy

lvl2: Inspired Scribe: Can scribe clerical spells from scrolls to spellbook

lvl2: Sacred Lorekeeper : At level 2 choose 2 cantrip from the cleric spell lsit. At each odd level you would gain a new wizard spell known, you may add a spell unique to the cleric spell list to your spell book instead.

lvl6: Devoted Orator: When you get to make an Arcana check, you may instead use your Religion score instead, vice versa. You gain proficiency with your choice of language from: Supernal, Infernal or Abyssal. As a bonus action when you cast a spell, you may decide to cast the spell in the language you chose. When doing so, your spells cannot be counter-spelled.

lvl10: Speak the Word: When you cast a spell with your Devoted Orator feature, once per short rest, you can raise your voice with divine authority, speaking words of anathema. When you do so, the target had disadvantage of the first save it make against the spell.

lvl14: Spell Synthesis : When you prepare your spells for the day, select two spells from your known spell, one of them must be from the cleric spell list and must be of 3rd level or less with a casting time of 1 action. Those two spells can be cast as part of a single action, expending the required spell slots as normal. You cannot use this feature until you take a short rest. You can select new spells to merge when you prepare you spells after the next long rest.

Tony Vargas · Jun 1, 2019

dnd4vr said:
Wizard archetype needed!

Ha! Another trick question! Wizards don't have archetypes, they have Traditions!

dnd4vr said:
I wonder how that would translate into 5E... I never played Pathfinder and 3.5 for one a few months over 10 years ago.

The Mystic Theurge was a kludge, because 3.5 MCing produced caster/caster combos that were about as bad as having 2 casters standing next to eachother, but only one of them could act each round.

In 5e a Mystic Theurge would be a Cleric/Wizard, no kludge required - one thing 5e got righter than 3.5 - now, Extra Attack & ASIs, OTOH....

Or, absent MCing, maybe the afore-mentioned arcane Domain Cleric, or a Wizard with the Acolyte bacground.

gyor · Jun 2, 2019

I think those who would design a Theurgist subclass should at least take some time to learn about Theurgist practices in the real world, just as a reference. As some studying actual Theurgy Wizards being Theurgist seems wrong. Thuergist should be it's own class, a Theurgist is a Neoplatonic Philosopher Priest.

Tony Vargas · Jun 2, 2019

gyor said:
I think those who would design a Theurgist subclass should at least take some time to learn about Theurgist practices in the real world, just as a reference. As some studying actual Theurgy Wizards being Theurgist seems wrong. Thuergist should be it's own class, a Theurgist is a Neoplatonic Philosopher Priest.

Sure, all D&D magic is more properly Thaumaturgy.

gyor · Jun 2, 2019

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theurgy

https://www.amazon.ca/Practical-Art-Divine-Magic-Contemporary/dp/0738745286 this book in my opinion is better for beginner studying Theurgy, Its a great book, but compared to the book Living Theurgy it is simplified, and doesn't really explore the whole hierarchy of Neoplatonic thought.

www.amazon.ca/Living-Theurgy-Iamblichus-Philosophy-Theology/dp/1905297718 This one is more advanced, your better off starting with the above book. This one goes deeper into the cosmology of late Theurgic Neoplatonism, especially of Iamblichus, but he also draws on Proclus, Empereror Julian the Philosopher, and some other to fill in the blanks.

There are Polytheistic, Christian, Judiac, and even possibly Islamic version if you count Sufism. Personally I'd go with the original Polythiestic Theurgy given polytheism is the most common religion in D&D, plus the other lost vital elements in transitioning to monotheism.

Personally I blend a darker understanding of Neoplatonism with Modal Realism as I find Modal Realism solves a lot of Polytheological issues, at a price of course.

I think it could make an amazing class. But Cleric can't really do the job as Clerics are warrior priests influenced by knights, while Theurgists are Philosopher Priests.