Since most of the spells you mention are either Concentration, or specifically limit you to one at time, I'm not seeing the problem. Granted the Planar Binding/Ally is the exception, without the concentration limit or one at a time restriction; so it is theoretically possible to sit there all day and bind or call up allies all day.
D&D 5E What spells should have had the ritual tag, but don't?
- Thread starter gyor
- Start date
Since most of the spells you mention are either Concentration, or specifically limit you to one at time, I'm not seeing the problem. Granted the Planar Binding/Ally is the exception, without the concentration limit or one at a time restriction; so it is theoretically possible to sit there all day and bind or call up allies all day.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Again, wizards aren’t the only ones with that spell. The trade off isn’t necessary, as well. Letting casters have decent armor that can be dispelled is fine. Making it a ritual spell means that any ritual caster can have it, which is exactly what I’m aiming for.
[MENTION=58172]Yaarel[/MENTION] I’m unconvinced. Those feats are among the least worthwhile feats in the game. They should have been folded into other feats, with no loss to the other feat.
the fact that they wildly overvalued those feats isn’t going to impact how I view a new option.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
It's one of the better feats in the game, because of the type of ritual caster (which is the better type which most actual casters do not get). There are no "must have" feats in this game.
This is why I wish the rituals had varying requirements. For example:
- Mage armor could have a material component that costs 2,000 gp (a mithril amulet of a shield studded with small diamonds) so it's slightly more expensive than plate armor. In other words, once you're able to afford such a component, you probably aren't that worried about 1st-level slots any more anyway.
- Cure wounds could consume a material component that costs 50 gp (a drop of quicksilver) so you're better off with a potion of healing. It can't be cast at higher levels (there's no point; just cast it repeatedly at 1st level).
- Knock could increase the casting time by 1 hour. Honestly, if you have an hour to sit there and pick at a lock, you don't exactly need to have Expertise in thieves' tools to get past it. Heck you could just take it apart to get through.
Quartz
Hero
Exactly what I wrote.
No, you could cast those in combat, particulaly the latter to summon reinforcements. That said, I'm open to adding other spells.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Thats a bonkers cost for 13+Dex Armor. Absolutely out of wack with the rest of the game. Even half that would be nonsensical. Just say no, if your goal is to say no.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Technically any spell could be cast in combat, so you said nothing.
Sorry, I thought you were adding something to the conversation and was tring to understand. Instead you were suggesting the null set in an obscure way just to waste people's time.
Unless you were suggesting something, in which case it's clear I didn't understand what "Spells you can't cast in combat" entails, so your snarky response that doesn't help clarify is just hostile and not helpful for the discussion as a whole. "You don't understand and ask what I mean, but I'm not going to share any explanation or information except 'I mean what I mean'."
What a waste.
Quartz
Hero
There are many spells that can't be cast in combat or are irrelevant to combat. Any spell that takes a long time to cast, for instance.
Yaarel
He Mage
Especially because of the gaming design of bounded accuracy, both the attack roll bonuses to hit and the AC bonuses to avoid being hit, are unusually valuable in 5e compared to previous editions.
Officially, in order to wear chain armor with proficiency, one must invest in two half-feats, light and medium. Two.
Even if a chain shirt was considered light armor (as in 3e), it would still be best light armor possible. Again, towards a half feat.
• Mage Armor AC 13 + 5 Dexterity = Full Plate Armor AC 18
Because Dexterity Fighters are already at an advantage over Strength Fighters, Fighters and other classes already tend to dump Strength and improve Dexterity. So, the high Dexterity is already in place. There is no special investment. Lots of Dexterity Fighter optimizers would love to have Mage Armor for free.
Mage Armor = Plate Armor
AC 18
This 18 remains balanced, but bounded accuracy requires caution concerning AC.
The benefits of investing in Strength also become uncertain.
In the 4e clone thread, a Fighting Style swaps the proficiencies of both medium armor and heavy armor to gain Mage Armor. (This is intended for Eldritch Knight at level 1.) If one argues giving up two is too much, and only needs to lose heavy armor to gain Mage Armor, we are still in the ballpark of a half-feat.
I feel,
• the value of light armor plus a shield is about equal to medium armor plus heavy armor
• the value of a half-feat is roughly four skills.
I estimate,
• light armor (4) + shield (2) ≈ medium armor (3) + heavy armor (3)
Note, the shield would be worth 4-ish in terms of AC, but the opportunity cost of occupying the offhand mitigates it.
With these numbers in mind, proficiency with all armors (4 + 3 + 3) would total 10 points, thus be an appealing feat, compared to a standard feat (8).
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Officially, those feats are wildly overvalued. By far. They’re garbage feats.
Mage Armor teaching AC 18 requires 20 Dex. By the level at which a character would have that, they can also have +1 Studded Leather, reaching the same AC, which only loses 1 AC while fighting beholders.
So, no, Mage Armor isn’t equal to Plate.
Further, by the time a Dex character has a 20 Dex, the Strength guy probably has their Plate.
Lastly, you’re mixing comparisons ina way that obfuscates the truth.
If wearing medium armor requires two feats for you, you aren’t playing a class that can have Mage Armor without taking a specific subclass or a feat. Fighters, Clerics, Druids, Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, all have medium armor. Everyone but wizards and sorcerers get at least light armor.
So, for half the classes, Mage Armor is a couple extra AC, at most. If they wanna be a Dex character.
For 4 other classes, it’s the same as a +1 to AC.
For Wizards, it’s 1 less spell slot used per day. For Sorcerers, it’s the ability to take a feat in order to burn 1 first level spell slot per day.
For warlocks, it saves them an Invocation.
Don't oversell it.
Similar Threads
AD6_gamerati_skyscraper
Recent & Upcoming Releases
-
April 16 2024 -
May 31 2024 -
June 3 2024 -
June 4 2024 -
June 18 2024 -
July 16 2024 -
September 17 2024 -
October 1 2024 -
November 12 2024 -
February 18 2025
