D&D 5E Why should I allow Multiclassing ?

BigVanVader

First Post
All I know is that if I were going to play an old, pulpy detective-style character, I'd have a mixture of Barbarian and Rogue, I think. He can sneak around, but when that doesn't work it's murder time. So, I'm pro multiclassing for that reason.
 

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Mallus

Legend
Now, I don't mind the whole Aladdin warlock-assassin hybrid thing...
Glad to hear it! I though he was pretty clever.

(though, I'm going to argue that genies should be allied with sorcerer, not warlock).
Why? Sorcerers in 5e don't have spiritual allies/patrons. Warlock's do. You can map Djinn/genies to any of Warlock patrons rather easily, as Djinn traditionally have elements of all three, ie ancient spiritual beings, malicious spirits (shaytan djinn), and being creatures from another universe.

You seem to want to argue --nitpick, even, in the case of genies being patrons-- with people's character concepts instead of helping them realize them. Why is that?
 

seebs

Adventurer
The first and last in that trio are okay. But, "Because the system supports it," isn't a terribly good reason to do it. I would prefer to see some purpose being served other than, "because I can," you know what I mean?

I actually sort of don't, because it's an RPG, and a large portion of character building comes down to "this is the character I thought of, and I can do that, so I will". I don't think creativity needs a particular justification.
 

sidonunspa

First Post
It is also the job of the GM to ensure that all players get to enjoy the spotlight equally in play - the one reason why game balance of any kind exists. If one player is using multiclassing to min-max and overshadow the others in play, to the point its difficult to create a challenging encounter for the min-maxer that won't casually wipe out the non-min-maxed characters.

So, if that's a problem at your table, and there have been tables that have reported it, then it is well within the DMs power and expectations to ban such measures from their table. Individual fun has to take second seat to the fun of the group as a whole.

So, "because min-maxing" is a valid reason in this case.

So what if you have someone who simply plays a wizard better then anyone else? you know that player who always thinks outside the box and steals the scean from everyone else.... are you going to force them to play a fighter?

mix-maxing is just as previlent with singel class characters as muti-class ones.

why not just have the GM make everyones characters and advancment choices for the them?
 
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BigVanVader

First Post
So what if you have someone who simply plays a wizard better then anyone else? you know that player who always thinks outside the box and stells the scean from everyone else.... are you going to force them to play a fighter?

mix-maxing is just as previlent with singel class characters as muti-class ones.

why not just have the GM make everyones characters and advancment choices for the them?

I know I definitely love to stell sceanes from everybody.
 

Mephista

Adventurer
Why? Sorcerers in 5e don't have spiritual allies/patrons. Warlock's do. You can map Djinn/genies to any of Warlock patrons rather easily, as Djinn traditionally have elements of all three, ie ancient spiritual beings, malicious spirits (shaytan djinn), and being creatures from another universe.

You seem to want to argue --nitpick, even, in the case of genies being patrons-- with people's character concepts instead of helping them realize them. Why is that?
I explained my reasoning here - http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=6462689#post6462689 . In short, I don't think that warlock's necrotic magic is thematically appropriate for a djinn. That is all. If you want an elemental themed familiar with the sorcerer, that's fine, I have nothing against giving access to find familiar ritual. Sorcerer background also allows for extraplanar critters giving them magic.



And I'm just arguing against the multiclass rules being good. As far as I'm concerned, they're crap and should be tossed out, and replaced with something that actually works well. Most of the interesting story ideas in this thread are, as far as I can tell, would kind of be terrible with the rules as written.

The classes are designed with the idea tiers in mind. 1-4, 5-10, 11-16, 17+. At each new tier, there is a notable bump in power and capabilities. A barbarian-rogue would be trailing behind everyone else. Dipping is the only way the current system really works outside of very select cases (usually, half-casters switching to full caster for more spell slots).

And, because of that, non-dip multiclassing leaves you with ineffective characters that fall behind everyone else in terms of not only combat ability, but exploration and social ability as well. This very quickly becomes not-fun (TM).

It is only effective 1-2 level dips, then focusing on a main class. This isn't organic growth, this isn't opening options. I consider it to be an abject failure in that regard that requires GM house rules and intervention.



So, I see a lot of people saying they want to mix rogue and barbarian, or warlock and the like. And you know what? If I thought the current rules supported those kinds of characters, I would be all for it.

I think the rules are flat out worth less than the paper they're printed on. They are complete and utter crap at pulling of story driven multiclassing, and only support min-maxing.



There's a lot of "If you don't like multiclassing, then you hate Creativity! And you killed my character!" in this thread Which is just untrue. I will work with people to help them make their concept work, assuming I'm the GM, in a way that fits in the world.

That said, I've personally yet to find someone who's used this style multiclassing for anything beyond twinking their character. Allowing it isn't going to make characters deeper, or more special beyond notes on a piece of paper. You can still role play it out. If it comes up as an organic part of your character story, we'll talk it out and come up with a solution. But someone who plans out multi-classing? I find that's just encouraging meta-game focus on the sheet.
 
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So is it pretty much accepted by everyone that 5e's multiclassing rules are awful? I keep seeing this put forth as though it's commonly accepted. How does it differ unfavorably with previous versions? What would make it better?
 

Boarstorm

First Post
There seem to be two different (but related) concerns here.

1) Dipping classes is fodder for Min-Maxers.
2) Going deep in another class makes for weaker characters than single class PCs.

As to the first: Perhaps. I'm not sure the theoretical increase in power is actually much to be worried about, however.

As to the second: If a player is willing to make that sacrifice for the sake of his vision for his character, I say more power to him.
[MENTION=6785438]Warmaster Horus[/MENTION]: I think they're fine, but I also believe that all characters needn't be balanced against one another.
 
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