D&D 5E MPMB's D&D 5e Character Tools

wilcoxon

Explorer
Thanks for the explanation on Wild Shape. Personally, my ideal would be to default to the official calculations and allow options to use as many other calculation methods as you can easily support.

The one thing that is critical to me would be the addition of mods to the Wild Shape page that are persistent. Since some magic items can be worn in beast form, it's a pain to have to go through and manually change the AC, Saves, Skills, attack, damage, etc for every entry any time the Wild Shape page recalculates. I think it should work to have one set of mods affect all Wild Shape forms (at least I haven't run into any mods that I need that vary between forms). Is this a possibility?
 

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Zene

First Post
Oh boy, the Wild Shape calculations... They have been so heavily debated and still get people questioning them that I think I'm developing an irrational fear of the Wild Shape rules ;)

Back when I made the Wild Shape pages for the sheet, I couldn't find any official sources on how the Wild Shape rules work with regards to calculating some combinations of character vs. beast proficiency. I found a lot of internet discussion about it, but no official ruling. Thus, I made the sheet handle all (logical) different ways of calculation that I could think of, so everybody could use their own interpretation. Since then, there has been a little more official information on how it should be handled (in a podcast of all places...) and it has become clear that the default option is indeed the official way of doing it (I guessed correctly, yay!).

To give some explanation about the different ways:

First off, the rules are clear that you count as being proficient in Wild Shape witall things that your character is proficient AND all things the beast is proficient with. So if your character has Str saving throw proficiency and the beast has Perception proficiency, you get both those proficiencies while in Wild Shape. However, what the rules were not clear about is what ability score and what proficiency bonus you get to add to calculate the total bonus. This is where the different forms of calculations come in.

Every calculation way fills out the ability score modifier and the proficiency bonus in its own way:

Use druid's prof. bonus if druid is prof. - the default/official way is that you have your own proficiency bonus (ranging from +2 to +6) and the beast has its own proficiency bonus (mostly +2 or +3). You use the ability scores of your wild shape to calculate all proficiencies (i.e. your Int/Wis/Cha and the beast's Str/Dex/Con). If the character is proficient, use the characters proficiency bonus. If the beast is proficient, use the beast's proficiency bonus. If both are proficient, use the highest of the two proficiency bonuses.

Use druid's prof. bonus for all prof. - this alternative way of calculation is the same as the default, with the change that you always use the character's proficiency bonus, even for things that only the beast is proficient with. Some people (still) argue that this is the right way of doing things, pointing to the fact that the text "“Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast" does not specify what is included in statistics and what isn't, and because the Monster Manual does not list Proficiency Bonus, it must not be part of "statistics of the beast".
This way offers 4 variations:
Excluding attacks and expertise - the beast's proficiency bonus is used for attacks. Some creatures in the PHB, if you do the maths, seemingly have Expertise in a skill - they add double their proficiency bonus. Now there is no way to know if this is a static bonus or it is coupled with the proficiency bonus. For example, a Giant Octopus has a Dex of 13, but +5 on Stealth. It has +2 proficiency bonus, thus it is getting another +2 from somewhere. In this variant, the sheet assumes it is a static bonus. In the example of the Giant Octopus, a level 5 character would get a Stealth bonus of +6 (+1 from Dex 13, +3 from the character's proficiency bonus, and +2 from the arbitrary Giant Octopus' bonus).
Including attacks - the character's proficiency bonus is also used for the attacks in beast form. This is (was?) debated because the beast's attacks are obviously being calculated using proficiency bonus, but Jeremy Crawford has clarified on Twitter that the beast's attacks are supposed to be copied from the Monster Manual exactly without changes, as that is the intention of limiting the power of Wild Shape.
Including expertise - the character's proficiency bonus is also used for those skills that the beast seemingly has expertise with. Using our previous example, that would thus come to a total of +7 Stealth (+1 from Dex 13, +6 from twice the character's proficiency bonus).
Including attacks and expertise - the character's proficiency bonus is also used for the attacks in beast form and for those skills that the beast seemingly has expertise with.

Use creature's prof. bonus for all prof. - this alternative calculation way works the same as the previous, but uses the beast's proficiency bonus for everything. Because now there isn't any issue with 'seeming expertise', nor any debate about whether the beast's attacks should be included or not, there are no variants.

Only compare based on total number - this way of calculation is by far the easiest, as it doesn't look at how the bonuses are made up, it just looks at the total as represented on the first page of your character sheet and what is in the Monster Manual. If your character has a +6 on Stealth, and the creature has a +5, the sheet will use +6 in the beast form.

I hope this adequately explains it :)

Perfect! Yes, makes total sense now. Thank you :)

Thanks for the explanation on Wild Shape. Personally, my ideal would be to default to the official calculations and allow options to use as many other calculation methods as you can easily support.

The one thing that is critical to me would be the addition of mods to the Wild Shape page that are persistent. Since some magic items can be worn in beast form, it's a pain to have to go through and manually change the AC, Saves, Skills, attack, damage, etc for every entry any time the Wild Shape page recalculates. I think it should work to have one set of mods affect all Wild Shape forms (at least I haven't run into any mods that I need that vary between forms). Is this a possibility?

Just a few posts back, I asked pretty much the same question. The answer was, basically, that it's a common request, and could be added to future functionality. Patreon supporters get to vote on what features are added next, so if enough of them are interested in it, it might be added.
 

Thanks for the explanation on Wild Shape. Personally, my ideal would be to default to the official calculations and allow options to use as many other calculation methods as you can easily support.

The one thing that is critical to me would be the addition of mods to the Wild Shape page that are persistent. Since some magic items can be worn in beast form, it's a pain to have to go through and manually change the AC, Saves, Skills, attack, damage, etc for every entry any time the Wild Shape page recalculates. I think it should work to have one set of mods affect all Wild Shape forms (at least I haven't run into any mods that I need that vary between forms). Is this a possibility?
Zene beat me to it and he said everything I wanted to say about this.

It is on the short list of things to add, but first I'm busy with adding support for Magic Items. As some magic items actually influence just the wild shapes (if my memory serves me right), it might even be part of the magic item update :)
 

wilcoxon

Explorer
Zene beat me to it and he said everything I wanted to say about this.

It is on the short list of things to add, but first I'm busy with adding support for Magic Items. As some magic items actually influence just the wild shapes (if my memory serves me right), it might even be part of the magic item update :)

Closest I can think of to a magic item that influences only Wild Shape is Insignia of Claws (unarmed and natural attacks). For a Druid, unless multi-classed as Monk, that is pretty much just Wild Shape.

Thanks for the reminder on Patreon and voting. I've been meaning for a little while now to contribute as this is the best character generator/sheet I've found (ForgedAnvil is the next closest and is really good but does not support UA which is a deal-breaker for me). Your sheet supports far more than DnD Beyond does (right now at least - they claim they plan to add a bunch more but we'll see).
 

Some good news and some sad news

I posted this on my Patreon yesterday, but I guess people here are also interested.

Patreon of morepurplemorebetter said:
The good news is that this Patreon has reached its next goal, at $700 a month. I want to sincerely thank all of you for your continued support!

The bad news is that I just (an hour ago) got the following message from the people who run the DMs Guild website:

"Dungeon Masters Guild" said:
Greetings,

Wizards of the Coast has instructed me to remove your Fully Automated
Character and Spell sheets from DMsGuild. Within the context of the
Dungeons Masters Guild you are allowed to use fifth edition content to
create fifth edition content. Simply making fifth edition content
available in another format is not allowed.

Regards

This sadly means that MPMB's Character Record Sheet is no longer available for free on DMs Guild. People who have previously bought it on DMs Guild can still access the files via their My Library page.
Scholar tier (and higher) patrons here, also still have access via the Dropbox/Google Drive shared folder.

For now I don't know what the future will hold for MPMB's Character Record Sheet. I would love to continue to improve the sheet and add new content to it, but I can't ignore this message from Wizards of the Coast and pretend everything will be okay. I honestly suspect a cease and desist is in the making for this Patreon account as well. For now I'm going to consider my options and try to get some more information from Wizards of the Coast about if (and how) the sheet is allowed to continue.

I will keep you up to date with any new developments!
If you are looking for the latest version of the sheet (v12.998), send me a direct message.


EDIT:

Please note that if you already bought the sheet on DMs Guild some time in the past, you can still get the latest version via your My Library page on DMs Guild.

If anybody is looking for the latest version and can't get it via my Patreon or their DMs Guild Library, send me a PM and I can hook you up! (But don't expect any response before tomorrow morning because it is getting late here)
 
Last edited:

David Dunham

First Post
RE: Some good news and some sad news

Just got paid and I was going today to buy the character sheet from DMSGuild and it disappeared from my cart :(

Looked online to find out why and found your message. Good luck.
 


Koren n'Rhys

Explorer
I do see 12.998 in my library, so it's updated there and downloadable even if the latest version I grabbed is older. Sorry to hear WotC cracked down on you - this is a fantastic resource.
 

Mark St Thomas

First Post
If MPMB gets a C&D, I suppose everybody who uses the sheet could do a write in campaign to WotC. MPMB's sheet is far better than anything they've put out (which is a fill-inable sheet where absolutely nothing is calculated).
 


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