Monsters that punch above their CR

MarkB · Nov 17, 2018

Ghosts' Horrifying Visage can seriously reduce a character's life expectancy if they fail their save and are unlucky on the d4 roll. An extra 40 years of age if you're playing a human or half-orc who's already at the 'grizzled veteran' end of the spectrum will put you well into the pensioner bracket - permanently if you're more than 24 hours away from a spellcaster capable of casting greater restoration. Multiple ghosts in short succession could easily be fatal, and since it's technically death due to extreme old age, you're out of luck for resurrection at any level.

Dualazi · Nov 17, 2018

It's noteworthy that almost all of the mentioned creatures are as close as can be to having old-school save-or-lose effects.

I'll second shadows as being particularly great as others have said, even against higher level PCs the threat of strength drain is a compelling one.

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'll throw out the Alhoon from Volo's, as it's a CR 10 creature, but packs an incredibly potent combo of mind blast+disintegrate. The first targets Int saves at a relatively high DC 16, and the following disintegrate is an auto-fail if they haven't broken free of the stun yet. If the PC can't survive 90 points of damage from that then they're dust in the wind.

iserith · Nov 17, 2018

MonkeezOnFire said:
I once had an encounter composed entirely of quicklings from Volo's. They are labelled CR1 but they've got more bang than some CR 2 creatures I've used. They have 3 attacks, each with +8 to hit. AC 16 is already fairly respectable but on top of that attacks have disadvantage unless they are incapacitated or restrained which not all groups will have ready access to at low levels. You might then be tempted to use area of effects to take them down, but they have evasion meaning its hard to damage them with Dex saves based effects, which I find to be one of the most common for lower level spells. To top it all off with 120 feet of movement they can pretty much get anywhere they want on the battlefield if there's enough room for them to maneuver.

So yea, half of the party went down that fight and one of my players will probably never let me hear the end of it

Yeah, I jacked up a party of 4 8th- and 9th-level PCs last session with 12 quicklings. The way the dungeon was laid out made it easy for them to move in, attack, and move away. The PCs were already weakened due to previous battles and the quicklings really got their pound of flesh. The players cottoned on to their Evasion and start doing shatter spells and thunderwaves to focus on Constitution saves plus magic missile to avoid missing. But by that time, they were on their last legs. They succeeded in taking the quicklings out, ultimately. That was the end of that adventuring day though as they limped out of the dungeon.

What was of particular note is that I'd have a quickling run up to a PC, attack, then run away, provoking an OA. If the PC took the OA, that limited their reactions for the subsequent quicklings that would run in and do the exact same thing. Most of the party has shield spells and so they fell for this once at great cost, then immediately stopped taking OAs to conserve their reactions for shield. Some great scrambling by the players on this, very exciting.

ad_hoc · Nov 17, 2018

Hobgoblins.

CR 1/2

AC 18

Dmg: 1d8+2d6+1 = 12

So they have much higher AC than most monsters, esp. low level ones. And as long as they have an ally nearby they will take down level 3 PCs in 2 hits.

On top of that they are to be played as military tacticians.

squibbles · Nov 17, 2018

GlassJaw said:
The one in LMoP had my party running after a well-placed fireball!

same here

flameskulls are serious business

Harzel · Nov 17, 2018

MonkeezOnFire said:
I once had an encounter composed entirely of quicklings from Volo's. They are labelled CR1 but they've got more bang than some CR 2 creatures I've used. They have 3 attacks, each with +8 to hit. AC 16 is already fairly respectable but on top of that attacks have disadvantage unless they are incapacitated or restrained which not all groups will have ready access to at low levels. You might then be tempted to use area of effects to take them down, but they have evasion meaning its hard to damage them with Dex saves based effects, which I find to be one of the most common for lower level spells. To top it all off with 120 feet of movement they can pretty much get anywhere they want on the battlefield if there's enough room for them to maneuver.

So yea, half of the party went down that fight and one of my players will probably never let me hear the end of it

At least per the DMG CR guidelines, the published CR of 1 seems to be a pretty blatant miscalculation. Their offensive CR is 5, so even though their defensive CR is maybe 1/4 or 1/2 (depending on how you quantify the effect of disadvantage on attack rolls), that still gives an average between 2 and 3, and it's closer to 3.

CapnZapp · Nov 17, 2018

Didn't read the entire thread - have someone mentioned combining will o the wisps with banshees?

Here's the one-two combo:

Wail (1/Day). The banshee releases a mournful wail, provided that she isn't in sunlight. This wail has no effect on constructs and undead. All other creatures within 30 feet of her that can hear her must make a DC 13 Constitution saving throw. On a failure, a creature drops to 0 hit points.

Consume Life: As a Bonus Action, the will-o’-wisp can target one creature it can see within 5 feet of it that has 0 Hit Points and is still alive. The target must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw against this magic or die.

The game doesn't have many proper death saves any more, but here we get instant death for any character (no matter how healthy) that fails two Con saves (that could take place within the same round, with the character not even getting to act in between). This should kill at least one in four wizards regardless of most everything.

Gavin O. · Nov 17, 2018

At CR 1/8, you have the mighty Pony, with 11 HP, and a melee attack with +4 to hit that deals 2d4+2 damage. Against level 1 PCs, a group of ponies is a real threat.

Ogre Mage · Nov 17, 2018

I concur about Intellect Devourers and Banshees. I have faced both as a member of low-level parties and they took down half the party due to their save-or-die effects!

gyor · Nov 17, 2018

Couatls, they have a lot of spellcasting for a CR creature, but it's their shape shifting that is especially nasty, can turn into any type of beast or humanoid CR 4 or lower.

Monsters that punch above their CR

MarkB

Legend

Dualazi

First Post

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

ad_hoc

(they/them)

squibbles

Adventurer

Harzel

Adventurer

CapnZapp

Legend

Gavin O.

First Post

Ogre Mage

Hero

gyor

Legend

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