Counter spell and calling out spell levels

Nutation · Apr 4, 2019

Gadget said:
This. So much this. Counterspell is amazingly powerful RAW; no need to give the players free information to make it even more of a sure thing. As is, bards (with magical secrets), and abjurers don't really have to worry about upcasting it much at all due to the bonus they get on the check anyway. The spell is meant to have some level of risk associated with it, no need to eliminate that entirely.

A very good point. I have been declaring spell slot level (this is in Adventurer's League). But, AL tables can have as many as 4 casters with Counterspell vs. one poor enemy caster. I should pull back on the info and make it more uncertain.

mikebr99 · Apr 4, 2019

TaranTheWanderer said:
I just make it all part of the same reaction instead of '2' reactions. Also, on a side note, is there a place (other than Xanathar's) that says making skill checks in combat is a reaction or an action?

My impression was that Xanathar's Guide has a whole bunch of 'optional' rules.

I'm just curious.

Hey Taran,
That's the only place I've seen these rules... But casting Counterspell uses your whole reaction time, so you don't have any time left to do anything else.

And trying to deduce what is coming at you once you're witnessed all the V/S/M components coming from the castor should take some time shouldn't it? At least as long as every other reaction in the game?

thanks

Mike

TaranTheWanderer · Apr 4, 2019

mikebr99 said:
Hey Taran,
That's the only place I've seen these rules... But casting Counterspell uses your whole reaction time, so you don't have any time left to do anything else.

And trying to deduce what is coming at you once you're witnessed all the V/S/M components coming from the castor should take some time shouldn't it? At least as long as every other reaction in the game?

thanks

Mike

Yeah, maybe. I just see it as innate knowledge.

You can describe it as, "You see him start to cast a spell"

Or you can describe it as, "you see him pull out rose pedals as he casts a spell"

With the latter description, you Immediately say, "I'd better counterspell his Sleep spell!" Because the recognition is instantaneous and, in fact, part of recognizing that he's casting a spell.

You know? You see him casting a spell and you either know what it is or you don't. Having that knowledge doesn't take time. To me the arcana check is just to see if you recognize it immediately or not. I don't see it as you analyzing exactly what the spell caster is doing. Which is why I make it harder to do if they use a focus or easier if there's a somatic or almost impossible if they use subtle spell. I'll read up Xanathar's.

I might make the DCs easier if you use your reaction or, even easier, if you spend your whole action watching.

iserith · Apr 4, 2019

I have to say I can't be given to care if the players are using counterspell a lot. They must like doing it, for one, but also it's at least a 3rd-level spell slot and they don't have an infinite amount of those. Plus it's at trade-off against choosing and preparing other spells that might be useful in situations that arise. In an action-packed adventuring day, if they want to blow those slots on counterspell instead of, say, fireball, that's fine by me.

And if there's ever a time where I want to raise the difficulty of the challenge, I can just add multiple spellcasters or some kind of feature of the area that makes counterspell costly or risky. No big deal.

5ekyu · Apr 4, 2019

Nutation said:
A very good point. I have been declaring spell slot level (this is in Adventurer's League). But, AL tables can have as many as 4 casters with Counterspell vs. one poor enemy caster. I should pull back on the info and make it more uncertain.

This raises to me a better question.

If i start to cast a spell and four potential counterspellers, ready to use their reactions, how do you resolve those choices?

Do thry get time to talk among themselves to decide who id gonna counterspell or if they want to counterspell?

Or do you say they each make choices *without* waiting to see other counterspells going off, or not?

Obviously a planned group could have plans and patterns so they knew who was "on counterspell" etc, but short of that, is it a debate over the reaction or blind choices that csn redult in multiple counters at one spell or none if everybody thinks another will do it?

TaranTheWanderer · Apr 4, 2019

[MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] I’d just go by initiative

Nutation · Apr 4, 2019

5ekyu said:
This raises to me a better question.

If i start to cast a spell and four potential counterspellers, ready to use their reactions, how do you resolve those choices?

Do thry get time to talk among themselves to decide who id gonna counterspell or if they want to counterspell?

Or do you say they each make choices *without* waiting to see other counterspells going off, or not?

Obviously a planned group could have plans and patterns so they knew who was "on counterspell" etc, but short of that, is it a debate over the reaction or blind choices that csn redult in multiple counters at one spell or none if everybody thinks another will do it?

In practice, they don't speak up at once. I'm sure that's happened, but normally, one will announce a counterspell, and if that fails (or the opposing caster counters), another will announce. That's generous of me, but I try not to let AL games be very adversarial. If timing conflict really became an issue, I would use initiative order.

Satyrn · Apr 4, 2019

Nutation said:
A very good point. I have been declaring spell slot level (this is in Adventurer's League). But, AL tables can have as many as 4 casters with Counterspell vs. one poor enemy caster. I should pull back on the info and make it more uncertain.

If I was playing in AL, I'd be seeking out DMs that are free with this sort of info.

77IM · Apr 4, 2019

iserith said:
I have to say I can't be given to care if the players are using counterspell a lot. They must like doing it

This is kind of a side-topic, but I've found that players are often drawn to doing things they don't like. Usually it's something that makes the game fun in the short term but not the long term, or vice-versa. So the fact that players do something a lot isn't, by itself, a great indicator that they enjoy that thing.

iserith · Apr 4, 2019

77IM said:
This is kind of a side-topic, but I've found that players are often drawn to doing things they don't like. Usually it's something that makes the game fun in the short term but not the long term, or vice-versa. So the fact that players do something a lot isn't, by itself, a great indicator that they enjoy that thing.

Who am I to get in the way of someone else's masochism?

Counter spell and calling out spell levels

Nutation

Explorer

mikebr99

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TaranTheWanderer

Legend

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

5ekyu

Hero

TaranTheWanderer

Legend

Nutation

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Satyrn

First Post

77IM

Explorer!!!

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

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