Planescape Do You Care About Planescape Lore?

I dont mind the original treatments of the Great Wheel by Gary in the Dragon, and PHB. Planescape was a neat alternative, but I hate that it has become largely canon and all settings trying to shoehorn it in, to a lessor or greater degree. The planes are one of those things that I wish D&D writers would ignore and leave up to DMs.

One of my fave things about 4e was the treatment of the planes and cosmology. Familiar, but fresh, easy to what you want without 30 years of baggage.

[MENTION=518]JeffB[/MENTION] Yeah, that's largely my feelings on the issue. I have no problems with Planescape being its own thing. Doesn't bother me in the least. But, for some bizarre reason, unlike all the other settings that either TSR or WOTC have banged out, Planescape gets to infect every other setting. We can't have a core setting with a different cosmology, without first paying lip service to Planescape.

I mean, everyone got up in arms about adding dragonborn and tieflings to Forgotten Realms. Yet, for some reason, we're supposed to just accept that every single D&D setting MUST be in line with Planescape lore.

I've never really liked the planes in D&D, so I always considered Planescape the worst possible campaign setting outside of Spelljammer.

I'm a fan of it because it's generally quite excellent lore, but I'm a big fan of the setting, so my perspective might be colored.

AFAIK, it's never hurt anyone, so I don't quite understand why one would be hostile towards it, but I try not to drink too deep from the well of haterade. It IS annoying when the game rules try to mandate your cosmology, though Planescape was pretty explicit that the great wheel was "only a model."

Hussar said:

We can't have a core setting with a different cosmology, without first paying lip service to Planescape.

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Dude, we did that. The World Axis lasted for half a decade, and it probably isn't going anywhere.

I don't really care about any official campaign setting stuff released, so I didn't vote. As always, play what you like

Hussar said:

I mean, everyone got up in arms about adding dragonborn and tieflings to Forgotten Realms. Yet, for some reason, we're supposed to just accept that every single D&D setting MUST be in line with Planescape lore.

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In large part I think it's because of the difference between how Planescape's additions in 2e were done versus how 4e's PoL was carried out. 2e Planescape added a lot of material, but with slim exception it didn't retcon previously established material. The planes weren't exactly heavily detailed in 1e, and even in 1e the Great Wheel was already a common cosmology. So when 2e elaborated upon that cosmology with Planescape as a specific setting, it wasn't exactly forcing itself into a position that hadn't already existed. 4e however set in place a new cosmology and the tropes of that entirely different cosmology into settings that didn't begin with it, and many of those changes were quite radical. Also, tieflings were already present in FR, it was just that 4e took a race that was known for insane variability due to many different fiendish bloodlines and suddenly tried to impose the 4e PoL homogenous devil-descended tiefling on top of that out of nowhere.

I don't mind if a setting has its own cosmology, in fact I'd prefer if Eberron wasn't forced into the Great Wheel and allowed to retain what it started with and was created with originally. I don't like it when something is pushed into place and settings are forced to alter to fit a core lore as we saw in 4e, but that wasn't the case in 2e because the Great Wheel had already been there in place during the previous edition.

Plus, you can still play using the World Axis. Nobody is going to take that away. It just may not have had the traction to remain a core element, as it looks like we're going to see the Great Wheel back as a primary default. But I don't have a problem at all with also showing something like the World Axis as another option among a few others outside of the classic Great Wheel.

Hussar said:

I mean, everyone got up in arms about adding dragonborn and tieflings to Forgotten Realms. Yet, for some reason, we're supposed to just accept that every single D&D setting MUST be in line with Planescape lore.

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It was AD&D lore before it was Planescape lore (see the PHB and Manual of the Planes). It was already part of every AD&D setting before Planescape came out (except Dark Sun, which isn't reachable in Planescape). Planescape just added more detail to the AD&D cosmology that already existed. As far as I know, the only things that are actually "from Planescape" are Sigil and the factions (and a few creatures).

I think it's fine as its own setting. People still completely lose their crap if 2E Planescape lore isn't used as canon for monsters or D&D cosmology, which is obnoxious, especially since a lot of Planescape initially was about filling in blanks in Gygax's alignment chart-derived cosmology.

Planescape's good ideas could have been even better had they been given a blank slate -- both Malhavoc's and Open Design's "Planescape reunions" both benefitted from being able to totally cut loose.

I suspect 5E will present us with the Great Wheel as a default and the 4E setting as an alternative in the Manual of the Planes. I think the game would be better off without either as a default, though.

derp