D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

SkidAce · Nov 16, 2018

Maxperson said:
... The rules provide me with ways to specialize in gambling. All I have to do is choose the gambler background, which the rules allow me to take. Then I give myself tool proficiency gambling items(dice, cards, etc.) and then I ask the DM to allow you proficiency with gambling(wis), which the DM will allow since it's a very reasonable request and the rules allow the DM to add in that skill. Viola! A professional gambler who specializes in gambling created via the rules.

Quoted for truth.

5ekyu · Nov 16, 2018

Maxperson said:
Instead of falsely spouting off about fallacies, why don't you actually read the rules. The rules do in fact cover non-combat options for all stats. Not just charisma.

The rules do offer ways to specialize. Bards and rogues get to have greater bonuses for skills than other classes. You can use either class to specialize or build a primarily social character.

Why would you need rules for something that takes a few seconds to just do?

Again, I don't want a book to be telling me how I should play my barbarian PC.

No it doesn't. The rules provide me with ways to specialize in gambling. All I have to do is choose the gambler background, which the rules allow me to take. Then I give myself tool proficiency gambling items(dice, cards, etc.) and then I ask the DM to allow you proficiency with gambling(wis), which the DM will allow since it's a very reasonable request and the rules allow the DM to add in that skill. Viola! A professional gambler who specializes in gambling created via the rules.

If you take a moment to understand the rules, instead of engaging tunnel vision, you will see that they are more robust than you are claiming.

Try reading the PHB. It will help you understand how to go about learning something after you are born. Backgrounds which are not tied to class allow you to learn proficiencies of your choice, as does the skilled feat.

I've played D&D without them, It's a bit more work to do the random stuff without dice, but not terribly difficult as it can be done fairly without any physical items at all.

Again, just because you claim shortcomings, doesn't mean those shortcomings exist, either. So far you've made claims that the game is mostly combat, which I refuted using the rules, claimed that only charisma is for non-combat, which I refuted using the rules, and claimed that you can't specialize or create a professional gambler, which I refuted using the rules.

You don't need to be a noble to build a castle. D&D is not the real world. And you don't need a book to give you an answer to that. The DM can answer all of those questions very simply. It's not the Oberoni Fallacy to say that, either, as it's not a problem for the DM to have to actually come up with stuff for the game, but rather a strength. I'm not forced to fight a system if I want castles and a feudal society to be different than the One True Way the book would say that those things happen.

"No it doesn't. The rules provide me with ways to specialize in gambling. All I have to do is choose the gambler background, which the rules allow me to take. Then I give myself tool proficiency gambling items(dice, cards, etc.) and then I ask the DM to allow you proficiency with gambling(wis), which the DM will allow since it's a very reasonable request and the rules allow the DM to add in that skill. Viola! A professional gambler who specializes in gambling created via the rules."

I would disagree with your request and say no...

Instead i would say "its redundant" - your proficiency with the type of gambling "tool" allows you to apply your proficiency to any ability check you make using them - so your wisdom check to read the other player in a cards game gets proficiency. your dex check to swap cards out of your sleeve gets proficiency... etc etc etc.

So you do not need to bur a new skill to be able to apply those proficiencies - it would be a waste.

5e uses tools for the more "professional" training where they might apply to a wider variety of ability scores as a matter of course - so a "gambler skill" is not needed any more than a "mason skill" or a "jeweler" skill.

But thats me and how i see 5e.

As an aside - this syncs well with the downtime training which allows character to learn new tools over time as non-combat activity with investment of gold, time and interactions - even tho some dont believe those exist (it seems.)

Maxperson · Nov 16, 2018

5ekyu said:
I would disagree with your request and say no...

Instead i would say "its redundant" - your proficiency with the type of gambling "tool" allows you to apply your proficiency to any ability check you make using them - so your wisdom check to read the other player in a cards game gets proficiency. your dex check to swap cards out of your sleeve gets proficiency... etc etc etc.

It's not necessarily redundant. The tool skill would be with the tools only, not reading people. Perhaps then, you make the gambling skill proficiency reading people and other non-tool aspects, and an opposed roll. If you win, you roll with advantage. There are lots of ways to do this.

The point I was making, though, is that you can make both a professional gambler, and a gambling specialist within the framework of the 5e rules.

So you do not need to bur a new skill to be able to apply those proficiencies - it would be a waste.

I disagree. Nothing that advances the character concept is a waste in my opinion.

5ekyu · Nov 17, 2018

Maxperson said:
It's not necessarily redundant. The tool skill would be with the tools only, not reading people. Perhaps then, you make the gambling skill proficiency reading people and other non-tool aspects, and an opposed roll. If you win, you roll with advantage. There are lots of ways to do this.

The point I was making, though, is that you can make both a professional gambler, and a gambling specialist within the framework of the 5e rules.

I disagree. Nothing that advances the character concept is a waste in my opinion.

I tend to use the view of tool proficiencies provided in XGtE not the stricter PHN minimal reading.

"assumes that a character who has proficiency with a tool also has learned about facets of the trade or profession that are not necessarily associated with the use of the tool."

So spotting someone palming cards is a place I would allow your cards proficiency to apply even tho the cards are not in your hand being used by you.

Other examples, for example, I allow a cobbler to examine a pair of shoes and gain proficiency bonus for knowing something about their style, where it's from, when it's from etc without the need to actually break out hammer and nail. Similarly reading someone's reactions in a card game over time etc by noticing their betting patterns etc would be another place I allowed cards proficiency to apply.

Along similar lines, I would give a character with profession in water vehicles the proficiency to assess the seawothiness (lake, river whatever) of a boat before "using it" by taking it out onto the water.

But, certainly a GM could say "no" to any/all of these limiting them to skills alone and tools to actually physical use of the tools with no "facets of the trade or profession" gained at all.

That's why for my games the answer would be different and the new skill not needed to "advance" the character concept. The gambler concept is establish by the proficiencies in the gsmes/tools not by an added gambler skill.

I would more be inclined to suggest they create a custom background than a new skill to further their concept.

But we are discussing different addresses in the same neighborhood and their merits, so we are much closer than those who deny that neighborhood even exists or who cant seem to find it with a GPS, Google maps, a road atlas and an eagle scout... so it's all good.

Azzy · Nov 17, 2018

5ekyu said:
I tend to use the view of tool proficiencies provided in XGtE not the stricter PHN minimal reading.

"assumes that a character who has proficiency with a tool also has learned about facets of the trade or profession that are not necessarily associated with the use of the tool."

As a tangent, I really wish tool proficiencies didn't exist and were instead just regular skills. But that's just me. :/

5ekyu · Nov 17, 2018

Azzy said:
As a tangent, I really wish tool proficiencies didn't exist and were instead just regular skills. But that's just me. :/

It was an approach I found odd st first but that grew to be wel liked after a bit of play.

In general, i find design-wise having two approaches or paths to the same location a good choice. I have seen it in other systems, where it worked as well - the difference between skill and operational experience.

But I can certainly see that not being everyone's cup of tea.

Maxperson · Nov 17, 2018

5ekyu said:
I tend to use the view of tool proficiencies provided in XGtE not the stricter PHN minimal reading.

"assumes that a character who has proficiency with a tool also has learned about facets of the trade or profession that are not necessarily associated with the use of the tool."

So spotting someone palming cards is a place I would allow your cards proficiency to apply even tho the cards are not in your hand being used by you.

That's fair. We just have two ways to get to the same point. Either way it happens, though, it was achieved through the 5e rules, so [MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION] is still wrong with his assertions.

I would more be inclined to suggest they create a custom background than a new skill to further their concept.

A custom background is what I was suggesting. Two skill/tool proficiencies.

But we are discussing different addresses in the same neighborhood and their merits, so we are much closer than those who deny that neighborhood even exists or who cant seem to find it with a GPS, Google maps, a road atlas and an eagle scout... so it's all good.

Absolutely.

Maxperson · Nov 17, 2018

Azzy said:
As a tangent, I really wish tool proficiencies didn't exist and were instead just regular skills. But that's just me. :/

Yeah. I'm still trying to wrap my head around tools.

FlyingChihuahua · Nov 17, 2018

Castles, Bribing Nobles, Getting with every whore in the city, Commissioning a giant statue of yourself, Bragging to dragons about your hoard being bigger, all kinds of good stuff, you just got to think.

5ekyu · Nov 17, 2018

FlyingChihuahua said:
Castles, Bribing Nobles, Getting with every whore in the city, Commissioning a giant statue of yourself, Bragging to dragons about your hoard being bigger, all kinds of good stuff, you just got to think.

That much gold means - i get to be picky!

D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

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