Voices in the players head. could use some ides from fellow dms

Nevvur said:

[MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]

I recognize your first response was full of "should" and not "must." But you followed it up with "A DM's job is..." This is a statement of convention unsupported by the reality of play and was the focus of my rebuttal, not your otherwise well stated advice.

Click to expand...

The play of the Dungeons & Dragons game unfolds according to this basic pattern.

1. The DM describes the environment.
The DM tells the players where their adventurers are and what’s around them, presenting the basic scope of options that present themselves (how many doors lead out of a room, what’s on a table, who’s in the tavern, and so on).

2. The players describe what they want to do.
Sometimes one player speaks for the whole party, saying, “We’ll take the east door,” for example. Other times, different adventurers do different things: one adventurer might search a treasure chest while a second examines an esoteric symbol engraved on a wall and a third keeps watch for monsters. The players don’t need to take turns, but the DM listens to every player and decides how to resolve those actions.

Sometimes, resolving a task is easy. If an adventurer wants to walk across a room and open a door, the DM might just say that the door opens and describe what lies beyond. But the door might be locked, the floor might hide a deadly trap, or some other circumstance might make it challenging for an adventurer to complete a task. In those cases, the DM decides what happens, often relying on the roll of a die to determine the results of an action.

3. The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.
Describing the results often leads to another decision point, which brings the flow of the game right back to step 1.

This pattern holds whether the adventurers are cautiously exploring a ruin, talking to a devious prince, or locked in mortal combat against a mighty dragon. In certain situations, particularly combat, the action is more structured and the players (and DM) do take turns choosing and resolving actions. But most of the time, play is fluid and flexible, adapting to the circumstances of the adventure.

Often the action of an adventure takes place in the imagination of the players and DM, relying on the DM’s verbal descriptions to set the scene. Some DMs like to use music, art, or recorded sound effects to help set the mood, and many players and DMs alike adopt different voices for the various adventurers, monsters, and other characters they play in the game. Sometimes, a DM might lay out a map and use tokens or miniature figures to represent each creature involved in a scene to help the players keep track of where everyone is.

Click to expand...

Nevvur said:

No game system text will contain the full set of parameters that can govern the interaction between player and GM, certainly not that block of text. You are effectively making up a rule that is, indeed, telling people how to play.

Beyond that, the system itself produces situations where the DM controls the character (mind control). It's not clear to me what really distinguishes a game where that is a possible and one where the player requests it as part of the concept.

Click to expand...

Ovinomancer said:

This is a specious argument. You're using the general statement that no ruleset can cover all situations to say that no specific rule can cover a soecific situation.

In this case, the job of the DM is the world and the narrating outcomes. The job of the player is to declare character actions. This split holds 100% true across multiple games, not just 5e. You can do something else, sure, but you can also follow this rule in every single interaction in 5e. Every. One.

This is because this rule doesn't model anything in the simulation. It defines how you interact with the simulation.

Click to expand...

Nevvur said:

Would you mind addressing the second half of my post while you're at it?

Click to expand...

Ovinomancer said:

Do you think that changes things? Do you not see a difference between a mechanic in gane that has a specified outcome is different ftom a DM arbitrarily telling a player "now your character feels this and does that?"

Click to expand...

Nevvur said:

A specified outcome and a "DM arbitrarily telling..." is not the comparison I was making. To answer your question, I was hoping to gain some insight into what this theoretical voice and its form of control represented to you as a storytelling device, which you have done adequately. To me, the interaction is closer to an NPC exerting influence on the PC than the DM assuming control of the PC, even while the practical side of game play suggests the latter. Which is to say, it would function similarly to how mind control effects play out, hence me bringing it up.

It's not the sort of thing I would blindside a player and impose on a PC, but as a proposal from a player? I just don't see the problem, nor the distinction between said proposal and standard mind control effects, and it baffled me you would advise against it.

Click to expand...