The fireball spell through the editions

[Plane Sailing]

D&D3 fireballs are more like the OD&D* and ED&D versions, and I’m glad. The expanding fireballs of AD&D1 and AD&D2 were unfun (either unused by wise PCs, or used once by unwise PCs, or used repeatedly for widespread destruction by cheesy PCs). Other spells didn’t have their AoE expanded by being in the most common adventure locale (dungeons)

Not really; many OD&D players had fireballs which filled their entire volume in confined spaces (I know that I did for instance).

Curiously, there were some big discussions in those days, which took place in the APAs (amature publishing associations) - things like Alarums and Excursions, The Wild Hunt, Trollcrusher and others. It was a bit like internet forums which only got updated once a month

I can't remember whether you were playing in those days, but the heated discussions tended to be on (a) whether a fireball expanded to fill its full volume or not and (b) whether the damage was supposed to be applied fully to each target or divided amongst the targets (I kid you not). It is interesting that AD&D expressly resolved both of those issues.

Cheers

 

[T. Foster]

I like fireballs expanding to their full volume, but think using the full spherical volume is excessive (since even outdoors the spell is likely to be targeted at ground level and require calculations). Therefore I prefer to think of the spell less as a "fire ball" and more of a "fire disc" (10' height x 20' radius) or perhaps a "fire hemisphere" -- the former fills ~12.5 10x10 squares and ignores the 3rd dimension entirely, the latter fills ~16.75 10x10x10 cubes and if cast in mid-air would conform to a sphere of a little over 15' radius. If playing AD&D I'll go with what the books say (even though I don't really like it) but in OD&D I'm more likely to go with one or the other of the above.

 

[Lanefan]

I just loved sitting down for an evening of fun and then having to perform mathematics to determine how much area was effect by a common spell. Oh, yes, and as a DM having to pull out your map and methodically work out exactly which areas were effected by the fireball spell. I thought people were arguing that earlier editions of D&D were faster in combat

With fireball, I just count squares spreading out from ground zero until I get to 33. If it's a 15' ceiling, each square counts as 1.5, and so on. A PC standing in an "edge" square gets a bonus on the save with a chance to be missed entirely. The nightmares are fireballs cast in small rough caverns with variable ceiling heights...there, I must admit, I kinda have to guess...

Lanefan

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Various other threads of late have covered whether 3e is more tightly reined in (and therefore less fun) than prior editions; all other considerations aside, I merely point to the changes to these two spells as evidence that it is.

Yes, 3e spells are generally easier to use and promote faster play.

 

[Ilium]

That points out one of the sillier things in OD&D/AD&D rules -- measurements are feet indoors, and yards outdoors. Bows and spells become significantly more effective if you take them outside. Just don't ask what happens if you're in a room shooting out the door into the outdoors, or vice versa.

A friend of mine used to play a dwarf who always threatened to make money by challenging humans to foot races. The races would take place in a bazaar with an arcaded walkway. He'd make the human run inside the walkway while he ran (right next to his opponent) outside the walkway.

 

[grodog]

I like fireballs expanding to their full volume, but think using the full spherical volume is excessive (since even outdoors the spell is likely to be targeted at ground level and require calculations). Therefore I prefer to think of the spell less as a "fire ball" and more of a "fire disc" (10' height x 20' radius) or perhaps a "fire hemisphere" -- the former fills ~12.5 10x10 squares and ignores the 3rd dimension entirely, the latter fills ~16.75 10x10x10 cubes and if cast in mid-air would conform to a sphere of a little over 15' radius.

I like your ideas, Trent, but I've also used fireball as defined in the PHB as our standard for play. That said, I've had PCs and NPCs research variants on the spell that are similar to what you outline above, so that they can make the area of effect smaller, or make it flexible within some constraints, etc. Sinking some time and gp into creating the perfect fireball for use in a dungeon even became the "mad wizard" quest for a fireball-loving player I knew of: IIRC he had about 4 different versions of the spell, ranging in level from 2 to 6 or so.

 

[johnsemlak]

One side note--I think the idea of capping hte damage of fire ball and similar spells to a certain number of d6s was first introduced in (IIRC) the Companion Rules set. There the limit was 20d6. 3e tones it down to 10d6.

 

[Melan]

I use fireballs the way T.Foster does - I usually omit the third dimension, unless it is cast in very cramped quarters. It is also fun to roll item saving throws for dungeon doors and whatnot to see where spillover happens...

It is interesting to note how fireballs have decreased in power - and not just because of filling available space or not. In pre-supplements OD&D, when characters usually had no more than 1d6 hp per level, 5d6 points of damage is brutal. With Greyhawk, your fighter's HD is increased to 1d8 - making survival easier. Things sort of went downhill from there with damage caps, and today, the fireball is a shadow of its former self... Nevertheless, still very useful: I was playing a wizard in a 3.0 game last week, and turning a horde of 10 black bears into goddam bear steak was as fun as ever.

 

[Glyfair]

It is interesting to note how fireballs have decreased in power - and not just because of filling available space or not. In pre-supplements OD&D, when characters usually had no more than 1d6 hp per level, 5d6 points of damage is brutal. With Greyhawk, your fighter's HD is increased to 1d8 - making survival easier. Things sort of went downhill from there with damage caps, and today, the fireball is a shadow of its former self...

You forgot the secondary effect. In AD&D characters hit points almost stop once they reach "name level." Fireball, on the other hand, continued to grow in damage. In 3E character's hit points continue to grow at the standard rate, but fireball stops growing at 10th level. This is one of many reasons that most considered high level AD&D to be the province of magic-users.

Let's compare a 20th level fighter with a 16 Con against a fireball from a 20th level magic-user. In AD&D the fighter has an average of 101 hit points, and the fireball does an average of 35 hit points on a successful save. So, 3 fireballs will drop a 20th level fighter.

In D&D 3E the fighter has an average of 154 hit points. The fireball does an average of 18 hit points. That means it takes an average of 9 fireballs to drop a 20th level fighter.

That's not the whole picture. The AD&D fighter is far, far more likely to save, for example. You also have to take into account the typical bonuses to stats and the differences between editions. However, it's still a good snapshot of the differences.

 

[Hussar]

ON a slightly related note. I used a wish to wipe out all those giants in the Hall when I wished for a 20 die fireball at my paladin's feet. Actually managed to survive it too. Ring of fire resistance saved my butt.