Square of Origin of a Close Blast

[James McMurray]

The big smiley means it was a joke. Besides, when does an argument have to make sense to happen on the internet?

 

[Pielorinho]

While it looks as though by RAW it's not allowed, I can't possibly imagine disallowing it in my game. Imagine a dragonborn covered by stirges, who wants to breathe on herself to get the little tweakers off--or a dragon who's got a rogue hiding under him. Why would I not allow these creatures to do a blast-breathe? It'd come up very rarely, it'd be awesome, and it'd be only the slightest revision to the rules.

Daniel

 

[Jhaelen]

starts out as a question about point of origins of blasts. Now it is on the issue of whether a creature can willingly position it's blast on itself.

DDM rules specifically forbid doing this IIRC, the 4E rules look like they prevent doing it as well, provided one reads "a blast fills an area adjacent to you." means you can't have the blast overlap you.

Well, currently there are no close blasts in DDM. However, there are cones which serve the same function. And for cones it's actually perfectly possible to include any or all squares within your space in the area of effect. Here's an interesting part of the DDM rules:

Page 42 – Adjacent entry
[Addition]
To the end of the entry, add “A creature is considered to be adjacent to its own space.”

The the clause that states that the originating square is unaffected clearly defines the intent. Why would the originating square be affected if it could not also fall within the area of effect? It would not. Therefore, yes a creature can indeed place itself within its own blast. It seems very, very clear to me.

I agree.

 

[dcyale]

At some point this needs official clarification. I'll be running Moathouse at a con in NJ in a couple weeks, and for convention play (i.e. run it as close to the official version as you can) I'll go with a blast not effecting any portion of a the source's space and must be entirely located outside of the source's space (i.e. the left hand spider example above).

If you allow the blast to occupy any space occupied by a large creature (i.e. the spider on the right above) it is contrary to the sentence "A blast fills an area adjacent to you that is a specified number of squares on a side." All sentences describing a blast remain true using the left side example. DDM errata, while I may agree with it personally, can't be used to vary the PHB at a convention, IMHO.

To add to the mix, what about a clost burst. The picture on page 272 of the PHB infers it does not affect your square, however the descriptions for close blast and blast seem to state that both effect the origin square. What if a tiny opponent is in your square? I think he should be affected by a close blast and the diagram is misleading.

 

[Mort_Q]

To add to the mix, what about a clost burst. The picture on page 272 of the PHB infers it does not affect your square, however the descriptions for close blast and blast seem to state that both effect the origin square. What if a tiny opponent is in your square? I think he should be affected by a close blast and the diagram is misleading.

What part of the text makes you think that that they both effect the origin square?

 

[Silvergriffon]

All close attacks always include at least one square within your space. In other words one square that you occupy.

A close attack is an area of effect that comes directly from you; its origin square is within your space.

A creature’s space is an expression of the number of squares it occupies.

A close attack’s area of effect defines the attack’s origin square, which is the attack’s starting point. A close burst uses your space as its origin square. A close blast uses a square within your space as its origin square.

So, these are what a legal close blast 3 should look like. The black dot is the caster, and the red square is the origin square. The one on the far right is a size Large caster.

Note that the diagram on page 272, bottom left, is a blast, not a close blast. There is a difference. See also how the diagram on page 272, top right, specifies that it is a diagram of a close burst, not a burst.

 

[spullara]

The left spider diagram is correct. A close blast (there is only one kind of blast as far as i can tell since blast uses thunderwave as an example) must:

1 uses a square within your space as its origin square
2 a blast fills an area adjacent to your space that is a specified number of squares on a side
3 the blast is adjacent to its origin square

For the left spider all are true. The right spider fails test 2 because the blast isn't adjacent to your space.

 

[dcyale]

What part of the text makes you think that that they both effect the origin square?

This part (PHB 272): "Burst: A burst starts in an origin square and extends in all directions to a specified number of squares from the origin square. For example, the cleric power flame strike is a burst 2 within 10 squares of you, which means the power originates in a square up to 10 squares away from you and affects the origin square and every square within 2 squares of it (a 5-square-by-5-square area)."

It doesn't seem to diffentiate between close and ranged bursts as to affecting the square of origin.

Note that the diagram on page 272, bottom left, is a blast, not a close blast.

Isn't every blast a "close" blast. I didn't think there were any ranged blasts, only ranged bursts.

 

[Kordeth]

All close attacks always include at least one square within your space. In other words one square that you occupy.

Not quite. All close attacks have their origin square within your space. The definition of a blast explains how the area affected by the blast relates to its origin square:

Blast: A blast fills an area adjacent to you that is a specified number of squares on a side. For example, the wizard power thunderwave is a blast 3, which means the power affects a 3-square-by-3-square area adjacent to you. The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space.

A blast is quite clearly spelled out as an area adjacent to, not overlapping, its "origin square."

Note that the diagram on page 272, bottom left, is a blast, not a close blast. There is a difference. See also how the diagram on page 272, top right, specifies that it is a diagram of a close burst, not a burst.

As dcyale said, there is no such thing as an area blast in the core rules. All blasts are close blasts.

 

[Silvergriffon]

Thanks. I see the part I missed, now.

The blast must be adjacent to its origin square, which is a square in your space. The origin square is not affected by the blast.

It's a little counter-intuitive that a burst "starts in an origin square", but a blast is "adjacent to" an origin square. The function of the origin square is different for each. ​