Hovering Dragons with Reach

[FadedC]

So here is an issue that we recently found while discussing dragons.

Pretty much every dragon encounter I've seen run has been fought with the dragon either landing on the ground and fighting in melee, or trying to fly into the air and trade breath attacks for missile shots. But there's no reason a dragon even has to land to melee, he can hover 10 feet off the ground and attack with reach 2 (or more at higher level). This seems like such a superior tactic there is no reason for the dragon not to do it. But it also seems somehow against what the designers intended, and kind of boring for melee characters. It's also notable that no mention of this was made in the MM under tactics, and even the designers themselves didn't run the d&d experience dragon like this.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[James McMurray]

If they hover they don't get the benefit of reach unless they have threatening reach. They also don't get to use their tail powers.

From an RP perspective, if a dragon considers itself superior to the lesser races and relishes bloodshed, it would want to be in the thick of things and not be "cowardly" and fly high.

 

[Bill Bisco]

From an RP perspective, Dragons are smart and have heard stories of other dragons being overconfident and underestimating the smaller races and likewise see no reason to give them advantages in combat.

 

[On Puget Sound]

I would rule that any creature with threatening reach that is using a natural weapon can be hit by a readied action when they strike. After all, the dragon is sticking its neck out.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Dragons can hover? They aren't exactly hummingbirds.

EDIT : Hmm, p.47 DMG. If you fail to fly at least 2 square during your turn, you crash at the end of your turn. I guess a DM could insist the dragon is just flying back and forth 2 square, though.

EDIT : But most dragons can specifically hover. Silly.

I prefer to have my dragons make large pass like a bird of prey and eventually land. The image of a dragon hovering instead of gliding tips the scale from fantastic realm into ridiculous territory for me. If you insist he does so by magic, than get rid of the wings altogether and make it a chinese type of flying serpent. Because otherwise, a dragon would need to flap his wing dozens of time a second to generate the push required to stay aloft, just a like a humming bird or an helicopter rotor.

 

[FadedC]

They don't need threatening reach (although it would help). Hovering with reach 2 still lets them attack normally while being out of regular melee range.

I'd also allow readied actions to smack the dragon when he attacks, but the dragon can easily most of these by just moving out of reach of eveyrone except 1 target before he attacks.

And yes dragons can hover, strange though that may seem.

 

[James McMurray]

From an RP perspective, Dragons are smart and have heard stories of other dragons being overconfident and underestimating the smaller races and likewise see no reason to give them advantages in combat.

True, but if the idea is to find a rationalization that will let you make the fight fun for all of the players, including the melee characters, you go with what you can.

They don't need threatening reach (although it would help). Hovering with reach 2 still lets them attack normally while being out of regular melee range.

I was referring to OAs, which require threatening reach. No, it's not a huge benefit to landing, but it's more than nothing.

Then again, I doubt many players will ever question your reasons for making the fight enjoyable, so it's mostly an academic discussion anyway.

 

[vigormortis]

From an RP perspective, Dragons are smart and have heard stories of other dragons being overconfident and underestimating the smaller races and likewise see no reason to give them advantages in combat.

Dragons always assume they are superior, even to other dragons. So the odds of them learning a lesson from another is dubious. Those that do are probably the dangerous things flying around.

 

[Runestar]

With the notable exception of the young black dragon, which is oddly missing the hover ability.

Tried something similar in 3e, where I had a vrock take the hover feat and stay out of reach of the party. Mirror image at-will meant that it was extremely hard to damage. Extremely annoying and tedious to defeat.

So I guess the answer here is "Yes, you can, but you shouldn't, because it would make for a very protracted and boring battle where the melee PCs cannot contribute effectively". And solo fights already last long enough as is.

 

[FadedC]

So I guess the answer here is "Yes, you can, but you shouldn't, because it would make for a very protracted and boring battle where the melee PCs cannot contribute effectively". And solo fights already last long enough as is.

Hmm....yeah that's my thought too. Still I hate having to dumb down a monster to make him fun, and I'm worried about living campaigns with more sadistic DMs.