Using Rods for wizard spells? Forked Thread: Swordmage Implement with Wizard powers?

[Ginnel]

Forked from: Swordmage Implement with Wizard powers?

I posted the following in the above thread, just wondering what peoples opinions are

"Hang on unless I haven't read this thread very carefully, could well be true, why does a multiclassed Warlock/Wizard need to use a wand why can't he use a rod for his wizard powers?

If memory serves me right the actual powers say Wizard Attack, Warlock Attack, and then has an implement keyword, I put it to the Jury that a character trained in any implements can use them for any powers, which just have the requisit of the implement keyword on them. (Not having the PHB to hand not sure if implements have arcane/divine keywords on them? so you can only use arcane ones for wizards/warlocks powers)

Just like with a weapon power, as long as you're trained in the weapon you can use it with that power as long as there are no restrictions on the power itself"

 

[abyssaldeath]

I'm ok with using a rod for multi-classed warlock/wizard. If I remember correctly, the developers said they added multi-classing at the end. To me that means that all the write ups for classes were written in a manner that didn't even have multi-classing in mind.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Being a warlock gives you the ability to use the rod for warlock powers, but not wizard powers. Being multiclassed into wizard allows you to use wand, orb and staff for wizard powers, but doesn't do anything for warlock powers.

The same is true if you start as a wizard. Read the "Implement" section of eachc lass's class features, and the appropriate multiclass feat.

(Since you have access to the Rules Compendium, "I don't have my PHB" isn't an excuse.)

 

[Danceofmasks]

I'm ok with using a rod for multi-classed warlock/wizard. If I remember correctly, the developers said they added multi-classing at the end. To me that means that all the write ups for classes were written in a manner that didn't even have multi-classing in mind.

In the interests of consistency, would you then allow a swordmage/wizard to use a longsword to fireball?
Doesn't bother me either way, it's just that eternal seekers fail at implement use .. and if the ruling is to allow arcane powers to use any arcane implement, well ...

 

[abyssaldeath]

Yes I would, but I really don't know much of anything about the Swordmage.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

(Since you have access to the Rules Compendium, "I don't have my PHB" isn't an excuse.)

Considering that we're already seeing discrepancies between the compendium and the rulebook, and that the compendium is still a beta, it's a perfectly valid excuse. You may rely on those rules, but many (maybe most) do not. For good reason.

To answer the original question, my inclination is to allow it, as implements are generally a flavor thing (unless you've got a specific class ability associated with one, a la the Wizard). But I'd really have to look closely at the various magical implements to see if I could spot something sticky. But I suspect that's not an issue at this stage.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

deleted

 

[Ginnel]

Being a warlock gives you the ability to use the rod for warlock powers, but not wizard powers. Being multiclassed into wizard allows you to use wand, orb and staff for wizard powers, but doesn't do anything for warlock powers.

The same is true if you start as a wizard. Read the "Implement" section of eachc lass's class features, and the appropriate multiclass feat.

(Since you have access to the Rules Compendium, "I don't have my PHB" isn't an excuse.)

You sir are a very rude man, it would have been possible to say that without any snark what-so-ever there "isn't an excuse" for rudeness.

However I do appreciate the answer

"Paladins make use of holy symbols to help channel and direct their divine powers. A paladin wearing or holding a magic holy symbol can add its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls to powers that have the implement keyword."

"Clerics make use of holy symbols to help channel and direct their divine powers. A cleric wearing or holding a magic holy symbol can add its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls to powers with the implement keyword. Without a holy symbol, a cleric can still use these powers, but he or she doesn’t gain the bonus provided by the magic implement."

I'm not doing this for any power gaming desire, I was just curious.

The two descriptions for the classes above do not place any restriction on the use of holy symbols to boost powers however but I would be happy to believe they are just mistypes to fit in with the wizard/warlock and the initiate feats.

 

[Tale]

I imagine that they want to limit the possibility of unexpected combinations of powers and properties. Being able to use Orb of Imposition with a Warlock power is something that might need to be considered when making the power if they could be used together. Or future rod properties would need to be evaluated on the basis that they might become useable with a fireball or other Wizard powers. But since the rules say that Warlock implements can only be used with Warlock powers and Wizard implements with Wizard powers, it's one less place to get tripped up.

 

[Kordeth]

"Paladins make use of holy symbols to help channel and direct their divine powers. A paladin wearing or holding a magic holy symbol can add its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls to powers that have the implement keyword."

"Clerics make use of holy symbols to help channel and direct their divine powers. A cleric wearing or holding a magic holy symbol can add its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls to powers with the implement keyword. Without a holy symbol, a cleric can still use these powers, but he or she doesn’t gain the bonus provided by the magic implement."

What version of the books are you getting these from? My version explicitly spells out "cleric class powers, as well as cleric paragon path powers" under cleric, and likewise for paladins.