Promises, promises...what WotC said, and actually did, with 4E

[Ander00]

Can't say I'm sad to see Emerald Frost or level restrictions on rings go, or that I didn't expect Gleemax to fail, and so forth. The only one that still rubs me the wrong way a bit is "multiclassing: every combination works, always". And it's not that I don't like the system for that, but it just feels so horribly rushed and unfinished.


cheers

 

[Cadfan]

I'm pretty sure that quest cards were just a sidebar matter from the very begining. I think it was only the hype from the trolls that explained them as some sort of core mechanic.

Rings only slightly changed. You can wear them at any level, there just aren't any available until certain levels. Accomplishes the same thing, and more reasonably. I approve.

They should have kept the Emerald Frost stuff. I mean, they did, in a way, but they should have kept it completely. Its no different from having deities matter for clerics, so the people who whined should have been ignored. I totally agree that the level limits on rings were unnecessary (though not as big of a deal as some made them out to be) but the hate on the Emerald Frost stuff was an area where the whiners really messed things up for the game. Look at the Warlock- what connection does teleportation and mind control have? Nothing except a flavor based one- they both relate to the feywild as WOTC has envisioned it. But they go together like peanut butter and chocolate when mixed by competent game designers. The whiners denied us the possibility that wizards could have similar elegant merging of flavor and mechanics, instead guaranteeing that the wizard class boiled down to "generic wielder of elemental damage types." All because they don't like proper nouns. Fools, all of them.

Race does matter. I wouldn't call that something that changed. Maybe people expected more, I don't know, but we ended up with racial powers and racial feats, all of which were designed to be useful in the long term instead of just as a small score modifier at low levels.

My only real complaint is multiclassing. They put together a great architecture for it, but didn't deliver. It should work better once more classes exist (because the biggest barriers are ability score synergy and lack of free hands for extra weapons or implements), but it doesn't quite work now. And in any case, paragon paths are a better way to multiclass. Why multiclass your cleric into a fighter when you can take a paragon path that gives you a fighter's marking abilities? You get the idea. The architecture exists, it just remains to be actually use it.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I don't remember this.

GenCon 07 Announcement of 4E
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6zECPZLmb0"]Link to video.[/ame]

In fact, I'm not sure what the point of making a new game that's the same as the old one, let alone making such an announcement.

The idea they were trying to sell is that 4E is the proud successor to 3.5 and all previous editions, that the game, despite all the changes is still D&D.

Some people say that they succeeded, some do not.

 

[Kez Darksun]

They said the SRD would contain psionics when they're published, as future PHBs/MMs/DMGs are supposed to be added to the SRD.

Not quite true. In this thread, Scott Rouse specifically mentions one reason for the delay of the GSL/SRD was to include material from the PH II and other products before they are released, and later on in the same thread, he mentions Psionics specifically as something that could be seen with the longer delay in approval, or not seen until 12 months later if there was no additional delay. While he never outright says that Psionics would be part of the material that they added that caused that specific delay, from my reading it was heavily implied that they would appear when the GSL was released.

 

[Rechan]

The idea they were trying to sell is that 4E is the proud successor to 3.5 and all previous editions, that the game, despite all the changes is still D&D.

Some people say that they succeeded, some do not.

Whether it lives up to D&D or not is a subjective opinion, not something easily quantifiable. I could argue that because it lacks Frost Giants in the first MM, it's not a proud successor.

 

[The Little Raven]

Not quite true.

You are correct, sir.

However, let me ask you this... what good would adding psionics to the SRD have done for us when the actual written material for psionics would not be releasing for a year, at the least? A reference guide to material we haven't seen and can't reasonably use is worthless, as Scott and his crew probably realized.

And he never actually promised that we'd get material put into the SRD before that material is actually available for use. He was just saying that they want to avoid having to update it constantly, and would prefer to update it in large blocks instead.

 

[Kez Darksun]

You are correct, sir.

However, let me ask you this... what good would adding psionics to the SRD have done for us when the actual written material for psionics would not be releasing for a year, at the least? A reference guide to material we haven't seen and can't reasonably use is worthless, as Scott and his crew probably realized.

And he never actually promised that we'd get material put into the SRD before that material is actually available for use. He was just saying that they want to avoid having to update it constantly, and would prefer to update it in large blocks instead.

Here is the link to the quote about future material and the SRD, and here is the quote reposted for convenience sake. Bold is my emphasis.

From Scott:
I hope, oh god do I hope this frickin thing goes up today. The license is done but late yesterday we added a bunch of new stuff to the SRD to cover some books coming out next year (like PH2 classes, power sources, and weapons).

I am still at home but when I get in this morning I'll get an update from LurkingLidda (Linae) on ripping it to PDFs and posting it today.

As far as what good it would have done, well, it would have allowed 3rd party publishers to begin designing new content for 4th edition that utilized the upcoming material as well as design around the first 3 core rulebooks. Now, something must have changed along the way from that post to when the GSL/SRD got released, or I missed its mention in there, but yes, the upcoming material was at least at first specifically mentioned as going in to the initial version of the SRD.

 

[jmucchiello]

However, let me ask you this... what good would adding psionics to the SRD have done for us when the actual written material for psionics would not be releasing for a year, at the least?

It would be a list of terms that 3pps would then know to avoid since redefining a term from the SRD is a violation the GSL. So if there is a Druid power called Nature's Regret in the SRD now, someone making their own druid would know not to call one of the powers Nature's Regret.

 

[freyar]

Didn't at some point WotC say that 4e would be released under the OGL? Not a new license, but a version of the OGL? They backtracked on that pretty fast.

 

[pemerton]

I'm pretty sure that quest cards were just a sidebar matter from the very begining.

Agreed.

The whiners denied us the possibility that wizards could have similar elegant merging of flavor and mechanics, instead guaranteeing that the wizard class boiled down to "generic wielder of elemental damage types." All because they don't like proper nouns.

Not only do you hate coloured dragons as a legacy mechanic, but now you're bashing those generic wielders of elemental damage types! Your readiness to reinvent D&D knows no limits!