Farewell to thee D&D

[FireLance]

You miss my point - I dislike that the powers are so weak. I miss powers that are on par with the spells and techniques of 3E. I miss the "loads of dice" damage, the crits that take away half an enemie's hitpoint in one blow - at high level. You'd have to make a rule that allows massive damage on PCs and foes.

I think the key problem is that there are few high-level standard monsters. At the high epic levels, I think most monsters in the MM are elites and solos that have twice and five times the hit points of a standard monster respectively.

Most monsters get hit points equal to Constitution score + (Level + 1) x 8. If I remember correctly, Brutes get (Level + 1) x 10 instead, and Artillery and Controllers get (Level + 1) x 6. So, a standard 30th-level monster with a Constitution of 22 would get 22 + 31 x 8 = 270 hit points.

A character optimized for damage and criticals (using a vicious greataxe, for example) can deal on average over 150 points of damage on a critical with a 29th-level 7[W] daily power. The basic damage roll is something like 84 + 9d12 + feats + enhancement + ability. That's more than half of what a standard 30th-level monster's hit points would be, if there were any, that is!

 

[cwhs01]

And i disliked that it meant combats could be over in one or two rounds if you were lucky/unlucky. Both as a gm and as a player. As a gm i would be sorely disapointed to see all my careful planning of an encounter wasted by a few dice rolls, regardless of wether it was me doing a tpk or the players nuking my npc's.

3e combats could get very anticlimactic.

You miss my point - I dislike that the powers are so weak. I miss powers that are on par with the spells and techniques of 3E. I miss the "loads of dice" damage, the crits that take away half an enemie's hitpoint in one blow - at high level. You'd have to make a rule that allows massive damage on PCs and foes.

 

[Fenes]

I was a little surprised that daily powers did not turn into that. I understand why it doesn't. It makes them too powerful, to important, and returns you back to all your "15 minute adventuring and save and sit" days woes they wanted to avoid with the new resource management system.

For tactical gameplay, "big guns" like that tend to break the game. Instead of outmaneuvering your foes and getting into advantageous situations, you just shoot your biggest gun and hope it hits.

But I get that people miss that.

Well, for me the problem is made worse because I do not have lots of combat anyway, not being into Dungeon Crawling. One, maybe two combats per day or session. More often none. So, I do not really have any need to battle the 15 minute adventuring day - my adventures usually only have one big, important battle, the rest is small fry that doesn't do much, and may even be handwaved.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, for me the problem is made worse because I do not have lots of combat anyway, not being into Dungeon Crawling. One, maybe two combats per day or session. More often none. So, I do not really have any need to battle the 15 minute adventuring day - my adventures usually only have one big, important battle, the rest is small fry that doesn't do much, and may even be handwaved.

I understand. If you were using 4E, which I probably wouldn't recommend anyway based on your priorities (but you made your decision anyway, right?), I'd probably focus on mixing a lot of Minions with a few regular or elite monsters. With bigger encounter areas, you can cover a large battle space and have what might be 3-4 encounters (you'd never play) in 3E be a single encounter in 4E. So you can have more battle for the same price, basically.

 

[cwhs01]

A question thats been bothering me a little. Why all the drama? Yes, someone made a new edition of some fantasy roleplaying game. No, it may not have been all what you hoped it would be. And importantly, No, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to dislike the new edition and play something else, while borrowing the few things you like.

Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and tearing hair out? There are lots of alternatives out there still. Even older editions of the same game.
Why do people get so emotional about this?

 

[Fenes]

A question thats been bothering me a little. Why all the drama? Yes, someone made a new edition of some fantasy roleplaying game. No, it may not have been all what you hoped it would be. And importantly, No, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to dislike the new edition and play something else, while borrowing the few things you like.

Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and tearing hair out? There are lots of alternatives out there still. Even older editions of the same game.
Why do people get so emotional about this?

Many are convinced that the game they like is the game for everyone, and the rest would see that if told often enough, and be happier for it.

Others can't take the idea that their idea of fun is not shared by everyone else, and take offense at others not playing the same game.

And many may fear that their own game may end or suffer if not enough people play it.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

A question thats been bothering me a little. Why all the drama?

The Internet thrives on drama.

Besides, if we don't get all worked up about unimportant stuff - like games - we would have to get worked up about important stuff and politics. And while we cannot really individually change how our countries are run, we can choose which games we play.

 

[Badapple]

That is another thing. My group has moved to 4E. Most of them like it. I don't want to be a disruption to them since they don't like it. So I may have to find a new gaming group, something I haven't done for 10 years or more. It is going to be strange to see all my friends move onto the new edition while I try to get something going with the old one.

I appreciate you not being insulting. I wasn't looking for a war. I'm sure more than me understand what is like to do a hobby for 25 years and have that hobby change in such a dramatic fashion.

I can emphathize with you, though we are on different sides of the fence. I'm in a gaming group that has been around for 15+ years, and we have recently converted to 4e. As one of the main DMs I love the new edition and have absolutely zero plans on ever going back and running 3.5 games. The other DM ended his 3.5 campaign and plans on running 4e the next time he runs a game. Most of the players in the group either don't care what we play, or like the new edition.

One player hates the new edition, for reasons that are his own, and are definately not worth getting into. He's played 4e for six weeks so far, and I can say that he's given it a try, but at this point it is unlikely he will change his mind.

He's hinted he will soon drop out of the gaming group. I think he's still somewhat in denial, or hoping we'll all "see the light" or maybe alternate games or something, but honestly it looks like it's all 4e for us from now on. Whether he feels hanging with his regular gaming group and his longtime friends is worth playing a game he dislikes is ultimately up to him, but he's not happy, and it makes me very sad, and empathetic to his (and the OP's) position.

 

[guivre]

5. Goodman had 1e adventures at GenCon? On paper, not pdf? Where do I get 'em?!

Lanefan

You don't. They were Gencon exclusives. You might be able to find someone here or there with a few extra copies, other than that you're probably going to be restricted to Ebay.

 

[JeffB]

A question thats been bothering me a little. Why all the drama? Yes, someone made a new edition of some fantasy roleplaying game. No, it may not have been all what you hoped it would be. And importantly, No, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to dislike the new edition and play something else, while borrowing the few things you like.

Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and tearing hair out? There are lots of alternatives out there still. Even older editions of the same game.
Why do people get so emotional about this?

+1

Not just re: the OP of this thread, but ALL of the threads that start like this. I don't mean just here either- I see it on the Necro boards and Dragonsfoot.
I understand having favorites and dislikes, I have them too- but much of this emotional attachment people are spewing on the internet re: a set of rules for a game of make-believe is just creepy.

I also wonder how many gamers showing so much attachment in web posts, would do the same in person (with the same vigor), speaking with other gamers? I'd wager very few... and I'd definitely keep my distance from said few