Clark Peterson on 4E

[Firevalkyrie]

You are wrong to "bewrong" him. It is a matter of your opinion as is his. Your opinion cannot make wrong his opinion.

Opinions can very well be wrong.

If one is of the opinion that the Earth is flat, that the Sun revolves around the Earth, that is one's opinion. But that opinion is wrong, and demonstrably so.

 

[xechnao]

"Roleplaying experience" (and even "the D&D experience") is a completely ethereal concept; any definition is subjective and arbitrary, and not useful for discussing the merits of any particular system.

On the contrary this is the actual matter. If not just labeling something a roleplaying and just creating any rule regarding the possibility of picking a choice among any variety, and doing so in turns with other people would be sufficently enough to make redundant anything else. Instead there are more roleplaying games around because what it matters to people is the different experience they provide.

 

[xechnao]

Opinions can very well be wrong.

If one is of the opinion that the Earth is flat, that the Sun revolves around the Earth, that is one's opinion. But that opinion is wrong, and demonstrably so.

Opinions can possibly be wrong when contrasted with new information objectively regarded valid. Opinions can not be wrong when contrasted with other opinions.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

Opinions can possibly be wrong when contrasted with new information objectively regarded valid. Opinions can not be wrong when contrasted with other opinions.

Fine.

role-playing game
–noun a game in which participants adopt the roles of imaginary characters in an adventure under the direction of a Game Master.

(Random House Unabridged Dictionary, 2006)

role-playing game
n. A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice.

(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition, 2006)

Which of these definitions does D&D 4th Edition not satisfy, and in what way?

If you cannot answer this question, you cannot say that 4E is not an RPG. And therefore, Clark's opinion is, in fact, wrong.

 

[Treebore]

Exactly. I don't have a problem with Clark not liking 4e as written (or anyone else for that matter), but I do have a problem on how he expressed that opinion, especially since it seems so out of character for him. As others have noted, its like he trolled through some messageboards and found some anti-4e buzzwords to pepper his post with.

He is writing from his personal point of view, just like you and Little Raven. Just like pretty much everyone does. So read it as his view, his feelings, his opinion, because that is what it is.

At least he isn't thinking or saying 4E sucks and is going to another system. He wants to solve the problems he sees with 4E. To write up an extensive house rules document and maybe publish it to share with others who may find them of interest.

That is what he means behind his chosen words, whether others like how he said it or not. He still wants 4E to be his "go to" game for D&D.

So rather than look for word usage to take offense with try and just see it as how he sees 4E and what he feels he needs to address in order to make it the perfect game for him.

Thats all his posts are about, taking a game he likes and turning it into his perfect game system. The same reason I love C&C, the same reason others play something other than 4E, to play the game closest to what each of us consider perfect for our gaming preferences.

Despite his word choice, that is all Clark means. So take offense if you wish, but your the one who will be taking things too far, not Clark.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition, 2006)

Of course the AMHDotEL 4E would help D&D 4E. I suppose it also has good things to say about Shadowrun 4E, right?

But let's face it - the 4th edition of American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language lacks the soul of the OAHDotEL. It's AHDotEL in name only. You just have to look at the anime cover to see that. Anyone using the OAHDoTEL 4E is not really interested in speaking or writing English, he's just looking at a list of words without any flavor or meaning.

 

[Jack99]

Yep. You take the role of an imaginary character and react to the environment (as described by the DM) and the actions of other characters played by other players...

So is Monopoly. Is Monopoly a roleplaying game? Why or why not?

I have been playing monopoly since I was a kid, with many many different people, and I have yet to play it with anyone who takes the role of an imaginary character.

"Hello all. I will be playing a character named Bob Simpson tonight. He is a 45 y/o real estate tycoon wanna-be who likes African-American ladies and Long Island ice-teas. His hairline is receding and he is a bit on the heavy side, but most people find him quite funny. He usually wears a grey suit and a brown suit-case at work, and drive a yellow porsche. If he goes to jail, he will probably break down and sit out at least 5 extra rounds, as he had a nasty experience when he was a kid, which left him traumatized and unable to cope with being locked up"

Do you guys introduce your characters like that in Monopoly? Seriously? For us, it's more like: "I pick the red car, lets roll and see who starts".

 

[Firevalkyrie]

Of course the AMHDotEL 4E would help D&D 4E. I suppose it also has good things to say about Shadowrun 4E, right?

But let's face it - the 4th edition of American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language lacks the soul of the OAHDotEL. It's AHDotEL in name only. You just have to look at the anime cover to see that. Anyone using the OAHDoTEL 4E is not really interested in speaking or writing English, he's just looking at a list of words without any flavor or meaning.

If we were on RPG.net, I would offer you a laugh point, if you collected them.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So rather than look for word usage to take offense with try and just see it as how he sees 4E and what he feels he needs to address in order to make it the perfect game for him.

Thats all his posts are about, taking a game he likes and turning it into his perfect game system. The same reason I love C&C, the same reason others play something other than 4E, to play the game closest to what each of us consider perfect for our gaming preferences.

I think it's unusual for me to agree with Treebore, but I do in this case. People are blowing it out of proportion. It's bad enough that we feel the need to defend our game choices or our games of choice, don't add "front-lines" where they don't need to exist!

Does this mean I have to give back my 4E f4nboi club card?

 

[Treebore]

Opinions can very well be wrong.

If one is of the opinion that the Earth is flat, that the Sun revolves around the Earth, that is one's opinion. But that opinion is wrong, and demonstrably so.

Yes, but Clarks opinion has evidence to prove the world is round and that the earth revolves around the sun. Plus he has hundreds of ENWorld board members who have chosen not to play 4E that also proves he is on to something.

So I think it is very big of you to accept your opinion of the world being flat is demonstrably wrong.