Clark Peterson on 4E

[Orcus]

Goodness gracious, I dont hate 4E

I like 4E. I do think it is missing something--the 1E feel that I love. The "soul", if you will. I had the same issue with 3E. Heck, Necro came into being because I wanted to put that feel back into 3E. I loved 3E too. I just happen to feel that to restore the 1E soul to 4E will require some rules changes or alternatives. 3E didnt need that. That is NOT the same as hating 4E.

If I have a negative tone, it comes from my frustration with the GSL revision process, not from 4E. I like 4E. My game group and I have had fun playing it. So I guess if I hate it I'm not sure why I would be playing it, which is exactly what I am doing

I just happen to think I can "improve" it from my standpoint to be closer to what I want it to be. I may be arrogant (which I am ) but I am not arrogant enough to think that what is an improvement for me is an improvement for everyone. I am only talking about my tastes. And I was talking to a relatively like minded audience when I said "4E done right," which probably should be stated 4E with the 1E feel restored (which is 4E done right in my view). Please keep in mind the audience. To a 1E friendly audience they knew what I mean with "4E done right". But I dont hate 4E, far from it. Heck, I am dying to support it. And I am actively playing it. I just find it is missing a certain something that I think I can put back in and that maybe there are some other people who would be interested in what I did. Or maybe not. YMMV.

Its sort of funny because the people over on the Necro boards are shaking their heads wondering how on ENWorld my comments are being construed as me being anti-4E. Funny how its all about perspective...

Clark

 

[Kishin]

The speed at which people turned on Clark like a group of rabid dogs made me laugh on the inside.

For a group that says "Don't think hard about fantasy," you guys REALLY have a lot of emotional investment in this.

For the amount you get riled up about '4E fanbois', your emotional investment is clearly as significant. I believe there's a story about a pot and a kettle that might be meaningful in this case.

I don't see -any- vituperative assault on Clark in this thread. I haven't noticed a single name being called. But as I said once already, when someone does a blatant 180 like that, its obviously going to turn some heads and invite its fair share of criticms and 'eh, what?"s from the crowd. Clark even acknowledged this, and it doesn't look to me like he's had his feelings hurt.

His opinion is his opinion. But you can't tell people not to react to someone who was vocally in favor of one position switching to the other side without a characteristically human skepticism. Hypocrisy, real or imagined (And no, I'm not saying Clark is a hypocrite, hence -imagined-) tends to bother everyone.

If I have a negative tone, it comes from my frustration with the GSL revision process, not from 4E.

I think this is something we can all get behind.

I think that trying to recapture a '1E feel' is the wrong way to go, though. That time has passed.

Now, I haven't played (or desired to play) 1E in quite awhile. However, as far as 'the time has passed' and nostalgia goes....The amount of hours I've spent playing Mega Man 9 this week beg to differ with you.

 

[Korgoth]

It wasnt fair or accurate of me to link that to anime and I am certainly not dissing that genre at all. But, as they say, you cant unring the bell.

Don't worry - the guy who made "Grave of the Fireflies" probably knew you weren't talking about him.

 

[Korgoth]

I think that trying to recapture a '1E feel' is the wrong way to go, though. That time has passed. If it hadn't, 2E and especially 3E would not have attracted so many players; 3E especially brought players back into the fold - meaning they had been actively driven away by 1E/2E's various little stupidities that don't fare well at all once you've been exposed to other systems.

EDIT:
What you call "stupidity", I call good game design and in fact the very principles of design that invented this silly hobby in the first place. And I will leave it at that.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I think that trying to recapture a '1E feel' is the wrong way to go, though. That time has passed. If it hadn't, 2E and especially 3E would not have attracted so many players; 3E especially brought players back into the fold - meaning they had been actively driven away by 1E/2E's various little stupidities that don't fare well at all once you've been exposed to other systems.

Some of use like those things alot. 4E is not my game since it killed many of the area that make me like d&d. Sure there other systems and I play them that's all 4e is, Another system. Since it clearly to me is no longer d&d. If someone can make it feel like d&d again , well that may be worth looking at.

 

[JVisgaitis]

As soon as someone comes up with an agreed upon all-encompassing definition of what exactly a roleplaying game is, then we can determine whether or not 4E is a roleplaying game. To me, whether it is or is not is less of a question than whether 4E is D&D.

What!? Now I realize I really did wake up in crazy town...

Are you insane? Claiming D&D isn't a roleplaying game? I don't care how much people say they played the game, read the rules, or tried to like the game. If you can come to the conclusion that 4e isn't even a roleplaying game, I'm sorry to inform you that you are living in denial and you have preconceived notions of the game in the first place.

I don't really mind the bickering back and fourth on editions, its expected and aside from the occasional snarky bit I don't mind it. But trying to tell me the 4e isn't a roleplaying game? Come on. You're right about one thing, somebody is smoking something. Problem is I don't think it's anyone at WotC.

 

[Umbran]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I foresee some unfortunate consequences if some folks in here do not either agree to disagree, or begin to show rather more respect for others than they are currently displaying.

I do not believe I should need to be more specific than that. Please be on your best behavior, cut the snark and sarcasm, and generally accept that others are allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours, and that there is no such thing as winning the thread.

 

[Delta]

I think that trying to recapture a '1E feel' is the wrong way to go, though. That time has passed. If it hadn't, 2E and especially 3E would not have attracted so many players; 3E especially brought players back into the fold - meaning they had been actively driven away by 1E/2E's various little stupidities that don't fare well at all once you've been exposed to other systems.

Many would have a different interpretation: 1E had many dedicated players, 2E drove them away, 3E brought them back (by embracing many 1E themes), and 4E drove many away again (by discarding those themes).

Look at the recent poll of what editions people would like to play. 1E beats 2E by a handy amount.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Then you agree with me. Cool. I like being agreed with...

Um..... Yes, actually.

What!? Now I realize I really did wake up in crazy town...

Are you insane? Claiming D&D isn't a roleplaying game? I don't care how much people say they played the game, read the rules, or tried to like the game. If you can come to the conclusion that 4e isn't even a roleplaying game, I'm sorry to inform you that you are living in denial and you have preconceived notions of the game in the first place.

I don't really mind the bickering back and fourth on editions, its expected and aside from the occasional snarky bit I don't mind it. But trying to tell me the 4e isn't a roleplaying game? Come on. You're right about one thing, somebody is smoking something. Problem is I don't think it's anyone at WotC.

This rant brought to you by misinterpretation and not reading any further in the thread.

 

[justanobody]

Goodness gracious, I dont hate 4E

I like 4E. I do think it is missing something--the 1E feel that I love. The "soul", if you will. I had the same issue with 3E. Heck, Necro came into being because I wanted to put that feel back into 3E. I loved 3E too. I just happen to feel that to restore the 1E soul to 4E will require some rules changes or alternatives. 3E didnt need that. That is NOT the same as hating 4E.

If I have a negative tone, it comes from my frustration with the GSL revision process, not from 4E. I like 4E. My game group and I have had fun playing it. So I guess if I hate it I'm not sure why I would be playing it, which is exactly what I am doing

I just happen to think I can "improve" it from my standpoint to be closer to what I want it to be. I may be arrogant (which I am ) but I am not arrogant enough to think that what is an improvement for me is an improvement for everyone. I am only talking about my tastes. And I was talking to a relatively like minded audience when I said "4E done right," which probably should be stated 4E with the 1E feel restored (which is 4E done right in my view). Please keep in mind the audience. To a 1E friendly audience they knew what I mean with "4E done right". But I dont hate 4E, far from it. Heck, I am dying to support it. And I am actively playing it. I just find it is missing a certain something that I think I can put back in and that maybe there are some other people who would be interested in what I did. Or maybe not. YMMV.

Its sort of funny because the people over on the Necro boards are shaking their heads wondering how on ENWorld my comments are being construed as me being anti-4E. Funny how its all about perspective...

Clark

Many people love to misread things. Hoping I am understanding you like the game that is 4th edition but feel in your heart it does not exude the same response as AD&D did from you, you feel 4th is missing something for what it added.

If that is in essence what you were saying, then I wish you luck adding back the missing AD&D bits you feel were left out and can't wait to see what (if) happens under the new GSL or without it.

If I misread what you said then feel free to flog and flay me. (You choose the order.)