Are a poll's results allowed to be discussed? - Forked Thread: A poll about DDI

[catsclaw227]

Forked from: Are you buying a DDI subscription?

I asked you. I even said please. And as the OP of this thread you guys happen to be threadjacking, I think it's completely within my perview to ask you to not screw it up.

If you feel that asking people to adhere to a certain level of respect for the subject of the thread is handing out decrees, I'd submit you're probably oversensitive to criticism.

You are right that discussing the percentages from the poll attached to this thread is part of the subject of the thread. However, making claims about what those percentages mean, especially when this is far from any sort of scientific poll, isn't part of the subject of this thread (and I highly doubt any of you are qualified enough, or in-the-know enough to be making such declarations). Also not a part of the subject of this thread, is turning this into a discussion about statistics, as all such examples of the above discourse in every other thread here on ENWorld, end up devolving into.

Let me begin by saying that I am not trying to start a flame. Honestly.

OK, so I posted in a thread about with a poll about whether people were going to pay for a DDI subscription. I voted and gave my opinion about whether I would purchase a DDI subscription. I a different post, in the same thread, I mused that the 42% "yes" result would be a win for WOTC, along with the oft-heard caveat that an EnWorld Poll is not scientific enough to hold weight.

I added the last part, lest someone add it for me later on.

My question here is... If I am semi-jokingly postulating about the poll results, is that considered threadjacking, as long as the discussion was still about the poll question and answers?

Does the OP have the right to decide what can and cannot be discussed in a thread with a poll, as long as it is relevant to the topic? And do they have the right to ask me to leave the thread if I want to discuss the poll results?

Again, I am not trying to start a flame, I honestly want to know if I violated some thread etiquette that I was unaware of. I've been around here a long time and I have seen lots of polls and discussions and have never been asked to leave because I discussed the poll results itself.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Does the OP have the right to decide what can and cannot be discussed in a thread with a poll, as long as it is relevant to the topic? And do they have the right to ask me to leave the thread if I want to discuss the poll results?

Again, I am not trying to start a flame, I honestly want to know if I violated some thread etiquette that I was unaware of.

Then it shouldn't matter to you whether the OP has the right to decide what can and cannot be discussed in a thread, or whether he has the right to ask you to leave the thread.

The issue is proper etiquette, as you say. So the relevant question is whether it is rude of you to ignore the OP's polite request. And yes, of course it is.

Now, if you simply didn't realize that you were doing something he had asked you not to do, you should simply apologize for your error. If you did realize it and did it anyway, then you obviously don't care about "thread etiquette."

 

[catsclaw227]

Then it shouldn't matter to you whether the OP has the right to decide what can and cannot be discussed in a thread, or whether he has the right to ask you to leave the thread.

The issue is proper etiquette, as you say. So the relevant question is whether it is rude of you to ignore the OP's polite request. And yes, of course it is.

Now, if you simply didn't realize that you were doing something he had asked you not to do, you should simply apologize for your error. If you did realize it and did it anyway, then you obviously don't care about "thread etiquette."

In the thread I did apologize, but then forked this question out because I was confused as to why discussing the results was so out of order.

IN truth, it was four pages in and I didn't recall that he was the OP until after he said it. He didn't mention it in the post where he called out a number of active posters in the thread to not discuss the poll.

El Mahdi, if you are watching, I truly am sorry if I buggered your thread and I bow out of the discussion thread, at your request. But I just don't understand why it was a problem in the first place. You post a poll and ask to discuss. I discussed. And was asked to leave.

 

[El Mahdi]

I also am not attempting to flame or start a war either. I'm very sincere about this and mean no ill will.

I don't feel, or think, nor did I imply that I have the right as the OP, to decide what can and can't be posted in a thread. I don't think an OP has anymore rights than anyone else on ENWorld. I've never seen anything posted here on ENWorld granting such rights or exceptions to OPs. My name here is El Mahdi, not Morrus. I didn't decree, I asked. I asked that people please not ruin the thread. As the OP, I do have a vested interest in the thread. I started it for a reason, to see how many people were going to buy a sub or not, and there reasons why - nothing more, nothing less.

I asked that the thread not be turned into a discussion about statistics, 3E vs 4E, or armchair interpretations of what the poll means. In every single thread I've read here on ENWorld, with the same or similiar discourse that had started, all seem to turn into a running battle of who can interpret the data better, and attacking of those who don't agree with their interpretation.

In that thread, one person made a comment about it being interesting that so many people seemed to be leaning a certain way. Which in a matter of two posts went from there, to those playing 3E would automatically vote negative (immediate edition/flame war tinder), then to the very next post declaring how early responses implied a specific involvement of those who preferred a specific system (an assumption that nobody can make unless they have the ability to read the minds of each poster), then to whether there should be a poll for only those who prefer a specific system (something impossible to do but definitely introduces more edition war fodder), then to a sudden recitations of statististics as fact that that none of the people saying them have any way of knowing (at least one however did say they were just guesstimates), all indications of a runaway train picking up steam and heading for a war about 3E over 4E, how someone is a fanboy for their interpretation, then another is a hater for their interpretaion, and it's all over for any chance of a continued discussion about what the threads subject actually is. (Whew......Big Breath and run-on sentence).

I don't think asking for this was heavy handed, or anything more than what most people wish wouldn't happen on threads. The conversation there had been going so well for three and a half pages without any contention, argument or edition bashing that I just wanted it to continue, and not devolve into the wars that tend to start with exactly the type of discourse taking place.

Edit: There's no one here on ENWorld, that's read even just a dozen threads, that hasn't seen the exact thing I'm talking about happen. I'm sorry if my request came across as rude or unreasonable, I just didn't want to see it devolve into what seems to be the typical end of a lot of like threads.

 

[Maggan]

You post a poll and ask to discuss. I discussed. And was asked to leave.

Which is another reason for not participating in polls at EN World. Or taking them too seriously.

/M

 

[Umbran]

Does the OP have the right to decide what can and cannot be discussed in a thread with a poll, as long as it is relevant to the topic? And do they have the right to ask me to leave the thread if I want to discuss the poll results?

Okay, to answer the question - no OP, whether it be of a poll thread or any other thread, gets to dictate what gets discussed. OPs don't "own" their threads. Like anyone else, they have a right to politely request a particular behavior, but no right of enforcement, and they don't get to make demands.

I repeat, just for clarity - everyone has the right to politely ask for others to be polite.

We do have a tradition that an OP may request a thread be closed if it wanders too far from their intent. The mods will honor that request if we feel the thread isn't going anywhere useful, but failing to follow the OP's desire is in and of itself not sufficient for thread closure.

I asked that the thread not be turned into a discussion about statistics, 3E vs 4E, or armchair interpretations of what the poll means. In every single thread I've read here on ENWorld, with the same or similiar discourse that had started, all seem to turn into a running battle of who can interpret the data better, and attacking of those who don't agree with their interpretation.

Well, a couple things I probably ought to note:

1) "and I highly doubt any of you are qualified enough, or in-the-know enough to be making such declarations" - um, you're just plain wrong here. There's several EN Worlder's who have math, physics, and statistics backgrounds who are more than qualified to speak on the subject. Perhaps you didn't mean to, but you insulted everyone who thinks they might be qualified. By declaring that you doubt their knowledge, you're basically asking them to prove you wrong.

So, my advice, if you don't want a particular branch of discussion to come up, don't be dismissive or insulting of the folks who might speak on that branch. Bad tactical move.

2) If you want a discussion to trend a certain way, you might want to try asking a moderator to help you in that regard, rather than trying to police it yourself.

The conversation there had been going so well for three and a half pages without any contention, argument or edition bashing that I just wanted it to continue, and not devolve into the wars that tend to start with exactly the type of discourse taking place.

We have a "report a post" function for a reason. I didn't see you report any post, but perhaps I missed it. If you did use it, please let me know and I'll see why it wasn't acted upon.

 

[El Mahdi]

Okay, to answer the question - no OP, whether it be of a poll thread or any other thread, gets to dictate what gets discussed. OPs don't "own" their threads. Like anyone else, they have a right to politely request a particular behavior, but no right of enforcement, and they don't get to make demands.

I repeat, just for clarity - everyone has the right to politely ask for others to be polite.

We do have a tradition that an OP may request a thread be closed if it wanders too far from their intent. The mods will honor that request if we feel the thread isn't going anywhere useful, but failing to follow the OP's desire is in and of itself not sufficient for thread closure.

I want to assure you and everyone else I don't think me or anyone else on ENWorld (except mods and Morrus of course), have the right to demand or decree anything.

I didn't intend that at all. If it came across that way to anyone involoved with this, I apologize. I wasn't offended by, or upset with anyone who posted, or felt anyone who posted on the thread was inappropriate.

Well, a couple things I probably ought to note:

1) "and I highly doubt any of you are qualified enough, or in-the-know enough to be making such declarations" - um, you're just plain wrong here. There's several EN Worlder's who have math, physics, and statistics backgrounds who are more than qualified to speak on the subject. Perhaps you didn't mean to, but you insulted everyone who thinks they might be qualified. By declaring that you doubt their knowledge, you're basically asking them to prove you wrong.

So, my advice, if you don't want a particular branch of discussion to come up, don't be dismissive or insulting of the folks who might speak on that branch. Bad tactical move.

I understand. I wasn't talking about everyone on ENWorld, just the posters I quoted (and I did check their info to make sure), but I understand how it could come across that way, and I understand the error in tactics. I'll endeavor to be more specific, and less confrontational in the future (although I'm by no means perfect, but I'll try).

2) If you want a discussion to trend a certain way, you might want to try asking a moderator to help you in that regard, rather than trying to police it yourself.

Definitely my course of action in the future.

We have a "report a post" function for a reason. I didn't see you report any post, but perhaps I missed it. If you did use it, please let me know and I'll see why it wasn't acted upon.

There was nobody who posted on the thread that I felt needed to be reported (at least they didn't offend me). It's more a matter of, as mentioned above, trending a certain way and not devolving into a war. I definitely won't try this on my own again. I'll probably try one of two approaches, depending on which seems best at the time, either request the help of a moderator, or just not let myself be bothered by it in the first place (probably the latter more than the former).