Warlord vs. Str. Cleric

[Ander00]

Yes, physically the warlord is in the thick of things. The effects of most of his powers (as well as commanding presence and the feats that build upon that) however do not affect himself, so in that regard he doesn't always feel like a part of the team he is boosting.


cheers

 

[Danceofmasks]

My LFR battle cleric is made of awesome.
20 str, 13 wis.
Intend to take no powers, ever, except for turn undead, that require wis.
It's a prof build ... feat selection: scale prof (1), plate prof (2), grandblade prof (4), light shield prof (6), heavy shield prof (8); retrain grandblade prof to bastard sword prof (8r4), student of the sword (10), plate spec (11), etc.
Intend to take kensai as a PP.

To be fair, it's a little overboard, but it's LFR so overboard is the order of the day.

 

[Stogoe]

The effects of most of his powers (as well as commanding presence and the feats that build upon that) however do not affect himself, so in that regard he doesn't always feel like a part of the team he is boosting.

That is the opposite of sense. He's boosting the team, so he's not part of the team?

Plus, there's the whole goalpost shifting thing. Frankly, I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

 

[Victim]

They don't. But it feels really awkward that all of their at-will powers are essentially "you get to make a basic attack, and your buddy gets a bonus." Except the one where "your buddy gets to make a basic attack, and he gets a bonus." And the one where "you get to do less damage than a basic attack, and your buddy gets a bonus."

Kinda gives the feel that this character's not really good at fighting, so much as cheerleading.

No reason why the warlord's [W]s are any less than the fighter's.

 

[Eccles]

I agree with the feeling that warlords aren't as dynamic as they could be. I've played one since 4e came out, with a quick play of a combat cleric for a one off, and it felt so much more involved and dynamic!

Almost on a weekly basis I come out with a warlord power, it boosts my allies, and I'm left standing next to the big villain, blood dripping off my blade trying to cultivate an innocent "what? Wasn't me..." expression as all of my allies become more resilient, or better able to hit the monster, and I'm left standing in a precarious position with nothing to show for it...

Invariably, this is accompanied by my warlord's battlecry of "I get nothing!!"

(Should probably be 'regret nothing', but it seems more suitable)

 

[Ander00]

That is the opposite of sense. He's boosting the team, so he's not part of the team?

"You guys go ahead and do it" vs. "Let's go ahead and do it". If you're not feeling a disconnect, great, but having played a warlord since release (and a cleric for two sessions), I am of the opinion that there is something lacking/the warlord is too dependent on his party. And here I do not primarily mean tactics, but party-makeup.

If you have a party that works well with him, good for you, but not all parties do. If your striker is an archery ranger and the defender is a charisma-based paladin, the warlord's worth just went down quite a bit, compared to the one with the brutal scoundrel and the maul-fighter.


cheers

 

[Zinovia]

The dragonborn inspiring warlord in our group has been frustrated by her character since she first created it. She thought she'd get in there and whack stuff along with everyone else, and be party support on top of that. More often she has complained that there was nothing she could do because all her powers required her to be adjacent to someone. Certainly there were times when she pulled off some powers that moved allies out of danger, or added some great bonuses, but I could see she was unhappy with the amount of damage and the range of options she had. Everything seemed too situational.

I feel that a big part of her dissatisfaction lies in the fact that she wants to get in there and hit stuff hard, and is less able to do that than she'd like. I also don't think she fully understands the capabilities of the class. She's not a tactical gamer, and doesn't quite have the mindset needed to pull this off.

Even so, I'm not convinced the fault lies entirely with her playstyle. The inspiring warlord at-wills feel kind of unsatisfying. There are times when all you can do is tantamount to a basic melee attack with no bonuses, because you or your allies don't happen to be in the right position yet.

Does playing a warlord effectively rely on being tactically minded? Is it something that only certain people can really pull off? I'll get another chance to see the class in action as my husband (who is a tactical gamer) plays a tactical warlord in our upcoming game. I'm inclined to say that you do need to be a particular type of player to play a warlord and like it, but I also think that the inspiring warlord could use some buffing. Any thoughts?

As for my other player, I created a dragonborn battle cleric for her to look at, and gave it one of the superior weapons from Adventurer's Vault. That character can hit for 2[W] and heal at the same time (encounter power), or boost allies who are nearby, but doesn't have to be directly adjacent to them. I'm pretty sure she'll be much happier with it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Oh I didn't realize that Wis is still so important to him, so the healing advantage of the cleric is still there which should be more than enough to balance the advantages of the Warlord (only one primary attribute, better equipment).

You could hardly say the warlord has only one primary attribute, since a tactical warlord with rubbish Int or an inspiring warlord with rubbish Cha wouldn't be much of a warlord.

It may be that all their powers key off Str for attacks, but that doesn't mean they are not concerned about their secondary abilities IMO.

Cheers

 

[Frostmarrow]

So is the warlord a good candiate for fighter multi-classing?

 

[Eccles]

Only if you want to hit stuff, IMHO. And you presumably took warlord to help you "lead the attack" (Ironically the only level 1 daily which actually has any effect on the warlord).

Also, you probably have other places to blow up to 4 feats.

And the fighter multiclass benefit of +1 to hit once a fight (plus mark them) is a bit rubbish, compared to the others...