I personally like the new Whip Training multiclass from the gladiator article in this months Dragon. And off-handed reach weapon, with a +3 prof is very nice for a Warlord. Combine that with a longsword in your main hand, for Heavy Blade Opportunist, and that makes a pretty killer combo IMO.
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Warlord vs. Str. Cleric
- Thread starter Baumi
- Start date
The way I see it
Laser Cleric: The leader who stays between the front and back lines, blasting and buffing, controlling, and healing. Strongest base heal with no real focus. Good for groups with no focus. Control and healing.
Battle Cleric: A melee leader who makes fighting aside him more effective. Best guy to have around you so don't go too far away. Great for party who just need heals and buffs. Buffs and Healing.
Tactical Warlord: Advanced melee combat is thier speciality. Their powers really are expliots as they are the best at taking and moving any advantage a side might have. A little weak on healing through. Great for melee focused parties. Damage and Buffs.
Inspiring Warlord: Damage and heals man. Damage and heals. Damage and healing.
Laser Cleric: The leader who stays between the front and back lines, blasting and buffing, controlling, and healing. Strongest base heal with no real focus. Good for groups with no focus. Control and healing.
Battle Cleric: A melee leader who makes fighting aside him more effective. Best guy to have around you so don't go too far away. Great for party who just need heals and buffs. Buffs and Healing.
Tactical Warlord: Advanced melee combat is thier speciality. Their powers really are expliots as they are the best at taking and moving any advantage a side might have. A little weak on healing through. Great for melee focused parties. Damage and Buffs.
Inspiring Warlord: Damage and heals man. Damage and heals. Damage and healing.
HighTemplar
First Post
Even my(PC built) inspiring warlord NPC is boring...And he dosen't have to play all the time, I don't want to imagine having to play one with a tactical warlord sitting in front of me.
Yeah, I think part of the problem with the Warlord is that the inspiring Warlord is pretty weaksauce, and his powers aren't as interesting. The Tacitical Warlord is all about positioning and offensive bonuses, setting up the team to pull off some awesome damage combos, while the Inspiring Warlord is more like a watered down Cleric. Being the "Roll that save again!" and "Here's a +2 AC," Guy doesn't exactly make you feel like a big tough leader dude. Big difference between them both in feel and effectiveness, IMO.
Hopefully Martial Power will present a more interesting Charisma variant so that Dragonborn Warlords don't have to feel shafted, and I agree that the class could use a few more selfish powers, once in a while. Even the Cleric has powers that just blow stuff up, and he's supposed to be the iconic leader.
Hopefully Martial Power will present a more interesting Charisma variant so that Dragonborn Warlords don't have to feel shafted, and I agree that the class could use a few more selfish powers, once in a while. Even the Cleric has powers that just blow stuff up, and he's supposed to be the iconic leader.
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SteelCoyote
First Post
My friends and I are both tactical (miniatures) gamers and role-players. When the full 4e came out we dropped our pre-release characters (from the rules put together here) and made new characters for a new campaign.
I made a Dragonborn Battle Cleric of Tempus with STR, CON and WIS as the important stats, Prof'd Scale and eventually by 3rd Level had Plate and added Greataxe for that extra 'splat' factor.
My friend made a Half-Elf Inspiring Warlord thinking it'd be the cool Commander of the party, three levels later and the Warlord was retired and the Tactical Genasi Warlord replaced the Half-elf.
Now, at 10th level, the Genasi Warlord has headed off to the West and we have a Dragonborn Paladin in his place.
Finally, it seems, my friend is happy. He IS a tactical gamer, has been through numerous local tournaments for D&D Minis and Warhammer, and he's one of the best I've seen in our various play groups. However, the class just isn't fun to play.
I and the Radiant Cleric (we have both builds) have never thought of swapping characters to something else, and we're happy with our builds.
The Warlord just isn't fun because you ARE too much "cheerleader" and not enough Erwin Rommel. You're not galvanizing your troops with your heroic deeds--as the Paladin and other two Clerics are doing--you're just sitting there wishing you could splat something while minions and traps foil your tactical plans.
As a long-time player and GM, I could definitely see the frustration in playing the Warlord. I have several other people play and drop them as well. Those I wrote off to an inability to master the class, but really it was probably just boring...after seeing others, I have no desire to play a Warlord, and I enjoy the tactical side of 4e.
Plus, in the player realm, it's easy for everyone to get excited when the Fighter crits for 4d12+ damage and something is hewn in half. It's not so exciting to get to make a Basic Attack, or Shift, or prepare the Warlord's Earl Grey, so there's little celebration for the Warlord.
cmbarona
First Post
Am I the only one here who actually likes their Inspiring Warlord?
It sounds like most of the complaints I hear cite the fact that Warlords essentially aren't strikers or controllers (and occasionally, defenders). I hear a lot of complaints about them not doing enough damage; well, is that really a good argument when talking about a leader? Why should I complain about not doing damage when I just set up the Rogue to flank and made him score a huge Sneak Attack with Hammer and Anvil?
Isn't there supposed to be some fun in enabling victory over being the one to acheive it?
It sounds like most of the complaints I hear cite the fact that Warlords essentially aren't strikers or controllers (and occasionally, defenders). I hear a lot of complaints about them not doing enough damage; well, is that really a good argument when talking about a leader? Why should I complain about not doing damage when I just set up the Rogue to flank and made him score a huge Sneak Attack with Hammer and Anvil?
Isn't there supposed to be some fun in enabling victory over being the one to acheive it?
Yes. You are in fact the only person on Earth who enjoys the Inspiring Warlord.
I don't think the Warlord problem, to the extent that one exists, is that it's a support class. People wouldn't be interested in the class to begin with they had no interest in boosting allies. It's just a matter of degree.
The Warlord is really, really hurting when he doesn't have any allies standing next to him to benefit from his powers. He also lacks the ability to benefit from the effects of most of his own abilities. Yes, he's a leader, but compare to the Cleric, who gets a good mix of healing/supporting powers, and stuff like Spiritual Weapon or Split the Sky, which exist soley to cause pain and suffering to his enemies. The Warlord is possibly too focused, to put it another way.
And that hurts some peoples conception of the class, when they want to play the grizzled inspiring battle captain who urges his allies on while also busting skulls on the front line. It tarnishes the image a bit when that same character starts to feel (justified or not) that they can't actually fight their way out of a paper sack and are just cheerleaders wearing chain mail skirts rather than rough and ready military men.
For what it's worth, I think the Tactical Warlord fits his image a bit better. His abilities are more unique and offensive/movement focused compared to the Cleric, and it's easy to see "the smart guy" as the skinny guy in back adjusting his spectacles while trying to get his team in position for the "Anguised Duck Ambush Alpha". Plus, Taclords can easy multiclass as Wizards for more battlefield control while still remaining in character.
In any case, we're getting like 3 more Warlord builds in Martial Power, so perhaps the new options will make it easier for more players to build the type of Warlord they envision.
In general though, support classes are always going to be less popular overall then, say, Strikers. That's just how it is.
Fedifensor
Explorer
The cleric, assuming they didn't completely tank Wisdom, is going to be a better healer than the Warlord.
Righteous Brand, being completely based on the character's primary stat, is perhaps the best at-will in the game - damage plus a major buff to an ally.
If you go with a balanced cleric build instead of a pure Strength cleric, Sacred Flame is not far behind Righteous Brand. Giving out saving throws with an at-will is huge.
Consecrated Ground makes a group tough to take down. Add Beacon of Hope for extra durability.
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Looking at the warlord, there are a few balancing factors, but not many.
Wolf Pack Tactics isn't as good as Righteous Brand or Sacred Flame...but it's not bad, either. Being able to shift an ally as a Special (which works even if you miss) is pretty powerful.
Lead the Attack is a game-changer with a high Int. A 18 Str/18 Int Genasi starts with a decent attack bonus, and can add +5 to the entire party's attacks versus one target at 1st level, and up to +10 at 28th level. A tactical warlord will be strongly tempted to keep this power his entire career.
Warlords with Combat Commander can potentially allow the entire party to act before the bad guys. With the right power choices and action points, this can turn a nail-biter fight into a cakewalk.
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Personally...I'd go with the cleric.
Righteous Brand, being completely based on the character's primary stat, is perhaps the best at-will in the game - damage plus a major buff to an ally.
If you go with a balanced cleric build instead of a pure Strength cleric, Sacred Flame is not far behind Righteous Brand. Giving out saving throws with an at-will is huge.
Consecrated Ground makes a group tough to take down. Add Beacon of Hope for extra durability.
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Looking at the warlord, there are a few balancing factors, but not many.
Wolf Pack Tactics isn't as good as Righteous Brand or Sacred Flame...but it's not bad, either. Being able to shift an ally as a Special (which works even if you miss) is pretty powerful.
Lead the Attack is a game-changer with a high Int. A 18 Str/18 Int Genasi starts with a decent attack bonus, and can add +5 to the entire party's attacks versus one target at 1st level, and up to +10 at 28th level. A tactical warlord will be strongly tempted to keep this power his entire career.
Warlords with Combat Commander can potentially allow the entire party to act before the bad guys. With the right power choices and action points, this can turn a nail-biter fight into a cakewalk.
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Personally...I'd go with the cleric.
