Correct me if I'm wrong: Paladin Marks

[RefinedBean]

My Paladin and Fighter PCs won't like loosing their 'choose-who-smacks-you-down' double-marking....

Time to break them the bad news. There can be only one mark on an enemy at any one time, and the Fighter's Mark != Paladin's Mark.

You can still pull off some nifty stuff with mark-swapping, though.

 

[Nail]

Just to get clarification - a Paladin's Divine Challenge mark gets removed if a Fighter does a Combat Challenge on the same enemy?

Yes.

A creature can only bear one mark at a time.

The fighter's Combat Challenge feature is based on marking the target.

The paladin's Divine Challenge feature is based on marking the target.

Therefore, a creature can only be affected by either Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Time to break them the bad news. There can be only one mark on an enemy at any one time, and the Fighter's Mark != Paladin's Mark.

You can still pull off some nifty stuff with mark-swapping, though.

Also, just to clarify something, when the Fighter makes their attack, they can choose not to mark the target. I play a Pally and my friend a Fighter and we use this to our advantage all the time. I will Divine Challenge an enemy, my Fighter friend will Shield push them away (and choose not to mark them) and then interpose himself between us. The enemy will take damage if they attack anyone but me, and he can't get to me, so he can't attack (of course this requires certain obstacles such as walls and what not, but we got it to work several times)

 

[RefinedBean]

Also, just to clarify something...<snip>

Yep, although remember that the Paladin's Divine Challenge is pretty conditional. He'd have to have stayed adjacent to the target or have attacked and shifted/moved away before setting up the Divine Challenge mark to make the tactic work...otherwise, the Divine Challenge is removed at the end of his turn.

So Paladin attacks, moves/shifts away from monster, Divine Challenges, Fighter then attacks enemy, pushes him, shifts into square between Paladin and monster, and away we go.

Footwork Lure also works pretty well, I'd imagine.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yep, although remember that the Paladin's Divine Challenge is pretty conditional. He'd have to have stayed adjacent to the target or have attacked and shifted/moved away before setting up the Divine Challenge mark to make the tactic work...otherwise, the Divine Challenge is removed at the end of his turn.

Back to front. Once he marks the target, he is then required to attack by the end of his turn (or end his turn adjacent). If he attacks, then marks, he won't fulfill that condition, because the requirement to attack by the end of his turn comes into being after he's attacked, so the attack he's made has no bearing on the Challenge condition.

When the Paladin uses Divine Challenge, this happens:
On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target. To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can'tuse divine challenge on your next turn.

So when the Paladin uses Divine Challenge, he is now required to engage the target on his turn.

He wants to Challenge, then attack, then move away to let the fighter in.

-Hyp.

 

[RefinedBean]

Back to front.

Well, I suck at reading comprehension. "You must engage the target you challenged..."

Thanks for clearing that up, that'll teach me to act like I know what I'm doin'.

 

[DracoSuave]

The Paladin in my group just throws hammers at things he wants to challenge at range. Works well.

 

[RefinedBean]

The Paladin in my group just throws hammers at things he wants to challenge at range. Works well.

If it's a strength-based paladin, might want to look into getting a Shield of Throwing. We had a Paladin that almost never lost his mark while wielding that shield!

 

[Nail]

If it's a strength-based paladin, might want to look into getting a Shield of Throwing. We had a Paladin that almost never lost his mark while wielding that shield!

In what book is the Shield of Throwing?

 

[DracoSuave]

Sure, if you even figure out that 'marked' is a condition in the first place. It certainly wasn't obvious to me when I first read those classes. Mostly because the wording is almost always on the form: "you mark the target", which is less suggestive of a condition than something like: "the target becomes marked"... or, heaven forbid, the use of the word 'condition' in those paragraphs. There's an art to writing reference books, and the 4E PHB doesn't practice it.

See, it is obvious if you take their advice and read the section on conditions, because it's all on the same page. But if you ignore their direct advice, and do not read the parts they directly reference, including conditions WHICH THEY MENTION YOU SHOULD READ, then the failure is yours.

'You should read this stuff.'
'No, I don't have to.'
'It has important information, including explanations of -that- page you have right there..'
'Nope, don't have to.'
'So, do you understand it?'
'Yep.'
'So you know how this works?'
'No.'
'It's in the part I suggested you read.'
'WELL YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME!'
'I did, dumbass.'

If I had to read (read p 277) on every other power just to sate people who don't bother following advice, it'd be a horrible read.

Because it's ALWAYS (read p277) for conditions. And if you have to look one up, why, lo and behold, they are all there.