Alternative to marks?

[Nebulous]

You think that's a nuisance, wait till you start running into monsters that mark PCs...

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No, i already eliminated this from my games. I came up with a new House Rule for nearly all soldier-like monsters that mark:

Resist Marking: the first time the creature is marked in an encounter per foe, it shrugs off the mark. The next mark by the same enemy effects it normally.

I found that this is very easy to track, and PCs have a dumbfounded look on their faces when their precious Mark is negated.

 

[Nebulous]

But for what it's worth, i find Marking by PCs sort of a pain too. The problem for me is convincing the players when i feel it is necessary to change how their powers work, when they LIKE how the powers work per RAW and have no desire to change them or learn a new rule.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Resist Marking: the first time the creature is marked in an encounter per foe, it shrugs off the mark. The next mark by the same enemy effects it normally.

Of course this power makes no sense as soldiers are supposed to be sticky, not slippery.

 

[erf_beto]

I was considering a simplified marking ability for monsters/npcs:

Defender (minor action, once per turn) all adjacent enemies are marked until the start of your next turn.

I think it's easy: just look at the battlemat, adjacent monster = marked. This would be a "standard" soldier ability, but I guess Fighters and Paladins would have additional benefits, like stopping movement and dealing radiant damage. I have no idea what to do with the Swordmage's mark though...

 

[Paul Strack]

So tone back their mark effect and count them as marking more stuff, so you don't have to track where the mark is at all.

Fighter: When an adjacent creature attacks a non-Defender or shifts, you may make an immediate interrupt melee attack against the creature.

Paladin: When an enemy within 5 squares makes an attack against a non-Defender ally, you may make an immediate reaction Charisma attack against the target's Will for 3+Cha/6+Cha/9+Cha damage.

Swordmage Shielding: When a non-Defender ally within 2 squares is damaged, you may block 5+Con damage as an immediate reaction.
Swordmage Assault: When a non-Defender ally within 2 squares is damaged, you may teleport adjacent to the attacker as an immediate reaction.

Disclaimer: I did not put a lot of thought into the balance ramifications there. Do note the -2 attack penalty has been removed.

These are good ideas. I've been mulling over how to simplify marks for NPCs, and these seem to be effective.

 

[sammy]

I've never really understood the whole "marking" thing. Just because I "challenge" you to a fight, doesn't mean you have to engage me.

I have been thinking of a simple fix.

When you mark a target, you gain a +1 to hit them until they are defeated or you change the mark. It's a way for the defender to "focus" on an enemy.

I also thought of this- if an enemy marked by you shifts, you get an immediate interrupt and shift also, but how you shift is up to you.

So, if you mark a target, you get a +1 to hit them, and if they shift, you get a shift. If they move away from you, you get an Opportunity Attack anyway.

How's that?

Sammy

 

[keterys]

Mostly doesn't give the enemy any incentive to fight you, which defeats the purpose of the 'defender' class.

 

[Siberys]

That'd work for assault swordmages, but for other defenders it'd be more of an incentive to get away. Unsticky != good defender. For assault swordmages, though, it'd be a nifty bonus. They like their marks running away.

I've considered replacing Marked with engaged, but only for monsters. Tracking PC marks is easy - I just use differently colored tokens. I'm not sure if I will, though.

Engaged(condition): You cannot use a move action to shift..

 

[fba827]

I haven't thought this through but how about something like ..

Marked: target must attack the marking enemy (save ends). A new mark immediately ends the old mark
Special: Any special defender triggers (such as paladin damage) takes effect the moment the save is made (but not if the mark is overwritten).

That basically allows marks to continue until save ends, and it removes the need to track the -2 penalties. So it's method of tracking is similar to tracking ongoing damage.

 

[Plane Sailing]

One of the things I find annoying is that a fighters mark works whether you hit or miss. It is unavoidable.

It might be interesting to do something like erf_beto suggests.

It might be interesting to say that a mark isn't set by attacking someone.

instead, a fighter can use a minor action to mark someone. Gives them a decent use for minor actions (and also means that there are times when they can't mark a foe, such as if they've just charged right across the room and used all their actions in the process).

Another possibility would be to remove 'Mark' entirely, and replace it with 'Taunt'.

Taunt
Minor action. You taunt an opponent you could reach with your weapon. [optionally: make a Cha vs Will attack and if successful], the opponent must include you in his attacks next turn.

That would give a flavourful minor action activity for the fighters, doesn't give the fighters the opportunity to pump up their damage output via extra attacks on people shifting or hitting other guys but certainly helps in the defendery role by 'attracting aggro' as it were.

Cheers