Alternative to marks?

[BlueBlackRed]

Is there a viable alternative to marks yet?

I don't have issue with quarry or curses, but it seems to me that marks are slowing the game down.

Please tell me a viable replacement exists.

 

[fba827]

just curious -- what aspect of marks is more slow than quarry/curse?

Is it the the fact that they are more fluid? Can change each round as opposed to put on one and it stays on them?
If that's the case, perhaps make them last an encounter but then to compensate you'll have to either a) have to take away the ability to have more than one mark at a time or b) increase action cost by one step so if they normally spend a free action to mark someone with a defender power its now a minor action, a minor to move, move to standard.... something like that. or just increase the duration and not compensate if it won't break your specific game. but specific powers (like the cleric one) that mark shouldn't be fiddled with leave them as one round things.

or is it the monsters are a little slower since you have to decide whether or not it's worth the penalty to attack elsewhere? If that's the case, just give yourself a guideline and stick to it. all minions and anyone less than X Intelligence will always attack the closest target regardless of mark. anyone with higher than X Int or who has elite or solo status will always attack for the best benefit to thier plan. anyone left inbetween those two extremes will always just attack the marking defender.

but, anyway, back to my first question -- what aspect of marking is making it slower for your group than quarry and curse?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Curses require only the warlock to pay attention.
Same with Hunter's Quarry.

Marks step over each other if you have more than one marking PC.
The DM has to know who has what marked so as not to trigger a mark's power.
When player X gives an OA, a marked monster can swing, but then the marking player Y gets his power trigger.
Then the marks go away after 1 round, requiring new information every round.

It gets old fast and can slow the game down.

Waiting 10 minutes to get to your turn was supposed to end with this edition.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've not come up with any viable alternatives to marks yet. The place where this discussion is likely to gain most traction is the 4e house rules forum, so I'll slide it over there.

Cheers

 

[Dausuul]

Curses require only the warlock to pay attention.
Same with Hunter's Quarry.

Marks step over each other if you have more than one marking PC.
The DM has to know who has what marked so as not to trigger a mark's power.
When player X gives an OA, a marked monster can swing, but then the marking player Y gets his power trigger.
Then the marks go away after 1 round, requiring new information every round.

It gets old fast and can slow the game down.

Waiting 10 minutes to get to your turn was supposed to end with this edition.

You think that's a nuisance, wait till you start running into monsters that mark PCs...

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've found an earlier thread here

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/227573-problems-marks.html

Cheers

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I've found an earlier thread here

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/227573-problems-marks.html

Cheers

Thanks, but the thread didn't have anything we haven't tried.

All my current ideas for replacements don't work or ruin the class(es).

Our group has 3 classes that can mark right now (fighter, swordmage, bard), and it got old fast.
The bard dropped it as soon as he could, but it seems that the results of marking that stop combat are the worst bit.

Dealing with opportunity attacks is ok, but adding more pauses to turns or even 2nd layers or more of OA's to attacks.

What happens when each side has 3 markers?
You could conceivable have a chain/generations of OA's.

 

[RangerWickett]

When I wrote a variant d20 ruleset a few years back, I had something similar to marking. Basically, you normally don't take opportunity attacks, but if you 'engage' someone, then you are able to make OAs against them.

You could make it so that marks work like engaging; fighters auto engage anyone they attack, and paladins can challenge someone and engage them that way. You would get rid of the paladin ability to divine zap, and the fighter ability to be sticky, so to balance this out, I'd suggest removing 'shift,' at least as a basic move option. You would also get rid of OAs, which I think slow down combat a bit too.

 

[keterys]

So tone back their mark effect and count them as marking more stuff, so you don't have to track where the mark is at all.

Fighter: When an adjacent creature attacks a non-Defender or shifts, you may make an immediate interrupt melee attack against the creature.

Paladin: When an enemy within 5 squares makes an attack against a non-Defender ally, you may make an immediate reaction Charisma attack against the target's Will for 3+Cha/6+Cha/9+Cha damage.

Swordmage Shielding: When a non-Defender ally within 2 squares is damaged, you may block 5+Con damage as an immediate reaction.
Swordmage Assault: When a non-Defender ally within 2 squares is damaged, you may teleport adjacent to the attacker as an immediate reaction.

Disclaimer: I did not put a lot of thought into the balance ramifications there. Do note the -2 attack penalty has been removed.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Hmm, I like the idea keeping marks static.

I don't mind the -2 attack penalty.
But I think you're on to something.